Swordsmanship Curriculum

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby MaartenSFS on Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:38 pm

I recently finished polishing up my swordsmanship curriculum and dividing it into a similar ranking system to my unarmed curriculum. I now have several students that are following it and the results are impressive. Being organised is a major benefit to students and the speed of their progress increases exponentially. Anyways, I thought that I'd share it. Let me know if you have any questions or comments.

士兵 - shìbīng (Soldier)
一) 热炉功 - rèlúgōng (上半) - The first half of a system of warm-ups/foundation exercises - identical to my unarmed system
二) 基础十二刀法 - jīchǔ shíèr dāofǎ - The Twelve Core Sabre Methods
三) 实战规则 - shízhàn guīzé - Fencing Rules
四) 基本攻击动作 - jīběn gōngjī dòngzuò - Basic Attacking Movements
五) 复合攻击动作 - fùhé gōngjī dòngzuò - Composite Attacking Movements

尉官 - wèiguān (Junior Officer)
一) 热炉功 - rèlúgōng (下半) - The second half of a system of warm-ups/foundation exercises - identical to my unarmed system
二) 五魁刀 - wǔkuídāo - Five Bad-Arse Sabre Methods
三) 防守动作 - fángshǒu dòngzuò - Defensive movements
四) 握刀法 - wòdāofǎ - Gripping Methods
五) 格斗式 - gédòu shì - Guards

×) 拜师 - bàishī - Become a Disciple

校官 - xiàoguān (Field Officer)
一) 圈步八刀 - quānbù bādāo - Eight Circle-Step Sabre Methods
二) 骗法 - piànfǎ - Deceptions
三) 步法 - bùfǎ - Footwork
四) 接刀攻击动作 - jiēdāo gōngjī dòngzuò - Binding Attack Movements
五) 训练系统 - xùnliàn xìtǒng - Drills System

将军 - jiāngjūn (à) (General)
一) 密传功法 - mìchuán gōngfǎ -Secret exercises for developing internal power
二) 密传技巧 - mìchuán jìqiǎo - Secret techniques
三) 刀的结构 - dāo de jiégòu - Parts of a Sabre
四) 教练培训 - jiàoliàn péixùn - Instructor Training
五) 比赛 - bǐsài - Competition

×) 出师 - chūshī - Graduate

元帅 - yuánshuài (Commander in Chief) - Highest Rank

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will officially test the students' knowledge and use of the material before they are allowed to pass to the next level. Disciples can start accepting their own students after attaining the rank of General. The final competition is against as many fellow students, students of other styles and students of my Master that I can find for them to fence with and graduating will mean that they can now accept their own disciples and further promote the art.

Lately I've made massive improvements in my fencing after being able to fence again on a regular basis after leaving China and working on the last things that I was taught before I left. I've also had the chance to fence with the local HEMA club and my stuff held up very, very well. They didn't know what to expect, as this style is so different to what they do. I'm so glad that I made the effort to go back to my Master and learn as much as I could before leaving China. When he comes to visit me next year I'd like to learn how to fight with the addition of a shield or with a short staff. We'll see. I hope that this post sheds some light on what I do. If you are in the area, do pop by. I have extra training swords and fencing masks. ;D

Oh, and I've also recently been training a lot more with a real Dadao and it has helped my understanding a lot. Plus, cutting water bottles and milk jugs has been a fucking blast! Eventually I'll try to buy a lot of thick rope and other things to cut as well.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby roger hao on Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:41 am

I like the soldier to general ranks.
Kudos to you for your effort and apparent success with this.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Tom on Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:04 pm

Good work, Maarten.
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward.

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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby everything on Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:43 pm

damn that sounds fun. good luck! i miss your photos from the other side of the world, though, haha.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby windwalker on Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:08 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:

Oh, and I've also recently been training a lot more with a real Dadao and it has helped my understanding a lot. Plus, cutting water bottles and milk jugs has been a fucking blast! Eventually I'll try to buy a lot of thick rope and other things to cut as well. Some use live chickens :o

might be NSFW :-\
https://news.tvbs.com.tw/world/1022199


Lots of good stuff, happy to see you making the transition.

Yep it should be fun.....wish you well..

Long ago a n-mantis teacher I studied under in Korea told me about how they tested things on out pigs ... :P One of those things that one hears but tends to half believe. Koreans can be very brutal, during vietnam,
Time magazine reported in 1966, “Captured Vietcong orders now stipulate that contact with the Koreans is to be avoided at all costs—unless a Vietcong victory is 100 percent certain.”


Image

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily ... etnam-war/
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby GrahamB on Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:52 am

What are your "Secret exercises for developing internal power"?
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Tom on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:46 am

windwalker wrote:
Long ago a n-mantis teacher I studied under in Korea told me about how they tested things on out pigs ...


If you're serious about blade work, especially with shorter-length weapons, it's a good practice to get the tactile feel of the blade moving through actual tissue (recently-butchered hog or cow, whole or part). It's very instructive with respect to grip, angle of entry, recovery, and other considerations with different techniques and different weapons (kukri, Fairbairn-Sykes, etc.).

it's not cheap but sharing the cost with others for occasional training makes it more feasible. Knowing a local butcher can be helpful.
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward.

---Vernon Law
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Trick on Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:27 am

GrahamB wrote:What are your "Secret exercises for developing internal power"?

Hey, you have to go through the ranks before you’ll get to know those
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Trick on Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:48 am

Tom wrote:
windwalker wrote:
Long ago a n-mantis teacher I studied under in Korea told me about how they tested things on out pigs ...


If you're serious about blade work, especially with shorter-length weapons, it's a good practice to get the tactile feel of the blade moving through actual tissue (recently-butchered hog or cow, whole or part). It's very instructive with respect to grip, angle of entry, recovery, and other considerations with different techniques and different weapons (kukri, Fairbairn-Sykes, etc.).

it's not cheap but sharing the cost with others for occasional training makes it more feasible. Knowing a local butcher can be helpful.

Not sword cutting, but yet knowing the blade. Here in China especially in the smaller cities such as the one I live in many households(especially the women in the household) know their blade, they chop and cut meat almost on a daily basis. Often I see some of my neighbors cut the neck of an chicken just outside the house I live in. I go to the nearby market to by meat, I see how they chop chop chop with the big cleavers...So those Chinese ladies one see in the parks doing sword forms probably are more skilled(in cutting)with the blade than most westerners playing the sword
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby windwalker on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:05 am

Trick wrote:
Here in China especially in the smaller cities such as the one I live in many households(especially the women in the household) know their blade, they chop and cut meat almost on a daily basis. Often I see some of my neighbors cut the neck of an chicken just outside the house I live in. I go to the nearby market to by meat, I see how they chop chop chop with the big cleavers...So those Chinese ladies one see in the parks doing sword forms probably are more skilled(in cutting)with the blade than most westerners playing the sword


Its not just Chinese ladies

"She found a dating app on her boyfriend’s phone. Then she bought a samurai sword.
" :o

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... 684251a807

For those who like Thai style

"
A jealous wife has been arrested after allegedly hacking off her husband’s penis Tuesday with a 12-inch-long carving knife. Karuna Sanusan, 24, carried out the bloody attack on 40-year-old Siripan after discovering he was having an affair, she told police."
https://nypost.com/2018/07/03/wife-says ... he-window/


Thats gotta hurt :P
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Finny on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:06 am

Trick wrote:
Tom wrote:
windwalker wrote:
Long ago a n-mantis teacher I studied under in Korea told me about how they tested things on out pigs ...


If you're serious about blade work, especially with shorter-length weapons, it's a good practice to get the tactile feel of the blade moving through actual tissue (recently-butchered hog or cow, whole or part). It's very instructive with respect to grip, angle of entry, recovery, and other considerations with different techniques and different weapons (kukri, Fairbairn-Sykes, etc.).

it's not cheap but sharing the cost with others for occasional training makes it more feasible. Knowing a local butcher can be helpful.

Not sword cutting, but yet knowing the blade. Here in China especially in the smaller cities such as the one I live in many households(especially the women in the household) know their blade, they chop and cut meat almost on a daily basis. Often I see some of my neighbors cut the neck of an chicken just outside the house I live in. I go to the nearby market to by meat, I see how they chop chop chop with the big cleavers...So those Chinese ladies one see in the parks doing sword forms probably are more skilled(in cutting)with the blade than most westerners playing the sword


Unless said 'westerners' also have a lifetime of cutting meat with a blade?
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby windwalker on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:37 am

Long ago a n-mantis teacher I studied under in Korea told me about how they tested things on out pigs ... :P One of those things that one hears but tends to half believe. Koreans can be very brutal, during vietnam,


To be clear what he mentioned involved killing the pigs barehanded.
It was said that trained hands could pierce skin....This was at at time when what
was trained was used

[
"during the Korean war he along with most other young men from his home town were recruited to fight for the south as guerilla fighters not actually associated with the formal army. After the war he was able to relocate to the south and has not seen his family since then." as part of a gorilla group."
http://www.oocities.org/mantiscave/parkchil.htm
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Franklin on Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:57 am

windwalker wrote:
Long ago a n-mantis teacher I studied under in Korea told me about how they tested things on out pigs ... :P One of those things that one hears but tends to half believe. Koreans can be very brutal, during vietnam,


To be clear what he mentioned involved killing the pigs barehanded.
It was said that trained hands could pierce skin....This was at at time when what
was trained was used

[
"during the Korean war he along with most other young men from his home town were recruited to fight for the south as guerilla fighters not actually associated with the formal army. After the war he was able to relocate to the south and has not seen his family since then." as part of a gorilla group."
http://www.oocities.org/mantiscave/parkchil.htm



I don't think that this was that uncommon back in the day

one of my teachers said that the tradition was to test your iron hand on live animals (i think dogs)
having to pierce into them and remove an organ (heart i think)

then later because it became more civilized
they used animal hide stretched over like a drum
and you would have to pierce through the hide and grab something inside the drum..

then nowadays
we just look at iron palm training videos..
and comment on how they are doing it wrong...
;D 8-)
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Trick on Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:33 am

Finny wrote:
Trick wrote:
Tom wrote:

If you're serious about blade work, especially with shorter-length weapons, it's a good practice to get the tactile feel of the blade moving through actual tissue (recently-butchered hog or cow, whole or part). It's very instructive with respect to grip, angle of entry, recovery, and other considerations with different techniques and different weapons (kukri, Fairbairn-Sykes, etc.).

it's not cheap but sharing the cost with others for occasional training makes it more feasible. Knowing a local butcher can be helpful.

Not sword cutting, but yet knowing the blade. Here in China especially in the smaller cities such as the one I live in many households(especially the women in the household) know their blade, they chop and cut meat almost on a daily basis. Often I see some of my neighbors cut the neck of an chicken just outside the house I live in. I go to the nearby market to by meat, I see how they chop chop chop with the big cleavers...So those Chinese ladies one see in the parks doing sword forms probably are more skilled(in cutting)with the blade than most westerners playing the sword


Unless said 'westerners' also have a lifetime of cutting meat with a blade?

I’m a Swedish city boy born in mid 60’s, using a steak knife was the “highest level” of meat cutting I had done until I moved to China and met my wife who taught me how to chop and slice much bigger chunks of flesh 8-) But killing a chicken I have not taken the step to do......(yet)......Another chopping that might be of “value” that I’ve done plenty, but is probably a quite absent activity amongst most city boys is chopping wood. Of course it’s done with an axe not a sword..but still chop chop.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby roger hao on Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:20 pm

Definitely not Chinese ladies before Brazilleras.

If you want to practice knife and spear hunting of wild pigs
it is offered all over in Texas. No special season and lots of pigs.
Usually about 150 lbs but sometimes up to 300 lb boar.
The dogs will get it backed up and you jump in and pierce it's heart.
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