Swordsmanship Curriculum

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Trick on Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:01 pm

roger hao wrote:Definitely not Chinese ladies before Brazilleras.

If you want to practice knife and spear hunting of wild pigs
it is offered all over in Texas. No special season and lots of pigs.
Usually about 150 lbs but sometimes up to 300 lb boar.
The dogs will get it backed up and you jump in and pierce it's heart.

Here they even kill the dogs 8-) "......................joking, it’s not so much as that anymore
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Steve James on Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:25 am

A swordsmith I know had the dream of hunting a bear with one he made. No joke, and I have no doubt at all that one of his swords could kill a bear.

Hey, all this is possible. Maasai boys used to have to kill a lion before they could be considered men and be able to marry. This tradition didn't stop until very recently. Oh, btw, it wasn't "fun and games" hunting just to prove one's manhood. The boys carried spears to protect their livestock, less so to hunt. I.e., the point of having livestock is to limit the need for hunting.

Hunting wild pigs is more of pest elimination, anyway. But, on foot, I think you'd have to catch one first in order to spear it. :)
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby roger hao on Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:25 am

http://www.knifehunts.com/

I have talked about Ben Tilley before
His life was spent hunting bear and mountain lion in the West.
His primary weapon to kill bear was a knife.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby roger hao on Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:00 pm

So......
No takers?
Everyone rather practice on dead things?
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:03 pm

I think I should work my way up to pigs from like gerbils or something first
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Steve James on Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:09 pm

Like I told the guy, I see no point in killing an animal unless it's necessary or useful. Afa bears, there are examples of bears charging on Youtube. I don't have the balls to try to kill one with a blade unless it was the only thing I had. I admire the guys who will try. Videos are always nice.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Trick on Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:41 pm

roger hao wrote:His primary weapon to kill bear was a knife.

If l had to depend on hunting to survive and a good knife was the only tool I had I carve some spears out of sturdy tree branches and build traps.............Haha I guess I would be in deep shit out in the wild 8-)
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Finny on Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:01 pm

Trick wrote:I’m a Swedish city boy born in mid 60’s, using a steak knife was the “highest level” of meat cutting I had done until I moved to China and met my wife who taught me how to chop and slice much bigger chunks of flesh 8-) But killing a chicken I have not taken the step to do......(yet)......Another chopping that might be of “value” that I’ve done plenty, but is probably a quite absent activity amongst most city boys is chopping wood. Of course it’s done with an axe not a sword..but still chop chop.


Well.. there are all types I guess. I'm considered an aussie 'city boy'. I held down my friend's family chicken so his old man could chop it's head off when I was around 7 or 8 - i think that was the first time I saw an animal killed. There are many aussies who would never have killed an animal. But there are plenty who have, and regularly do. Chickens are small and easy to chop. Larger things would prove more educational.

And yes - chopping wood is great exercise.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:25 am

Cheers, guys. Sorry that I haven't replied to my own thread. It's been a hectic week. It's gone off in an interesting direction. I haven't really thought about cutting flesh before, but I suppose that one day when I have a number of students we could pitch in together and give it a shot. That sounds educational.

As for eating dogs and cats and other things in China, it is still very, very common, but more prevalent in certain regions of China. Certainly in Guangxi in the South it is very popular (and is where that festival is held) and in Heilongjiang it seemed like there was a dog meat restaurant around every corner because apparently the ethnic Koreans love them some dog.

Regarding the secret techniques... Yes... they're secret. Only taught to disciples. Really good stuff. Nothing mystical, just hard work.

I miss taking those photos too... I miss China a lot already. I can't go back, though, because it's become a dictatorship and there isn't really a future there... :/

Anyways, thanks for sharing your stories. I've got a quick one too. I once saw a man at a market using a blowtorch to skin a living cat that he was holding by the tail. I wanted to kill the fucker! -evil-

Oh, and fighting a bear with a knife is just plain foolhardy, but videos would be appreciated. ;D
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby klonk on Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:29 pm

Back to the original topic, learning a bit about Western fencing sharpens any understanding of Asian swordsmanship. What Western fencing brings to the table is a Cartesian understanding of timing and position. Never mind the archaic French terms, it is about distance, time and sneakiness.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Trick on Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:45 am

klonk wrote:Back to the original topic, learning a bit about Western fencing sharpens any understanding of Asian swordsmanship. What Western fencing brings to the table is a Cartesian understanding of timing and position. Never mind the archaic French terms, it is about distance, time and sneakiness.

Absolutely, but can you cleave a man in half in one cut with those “western(Olympic) fencing tools/toys ??……………But seriously, absolutely engaging in western(Olympic) fencing would probably be to an advantage if one want to learn fencing.……Allez
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:18 pm

I believe that it would help more with Jianfa than Daofa. I studied a little bit of Western fencing before moving to China and I honestly think that our Daofa is every bit as sophisticated, but much more practical in more varied situations. With regular fencing partners I just made some massive progress lately, especially in the Bagua footwork department. It was one of the things that I learned more towards the end and wasn't as comfortable with before leaving China..

On another note, I just added a section to the end of the curriculum on how to use the 36 Stratagems in a Daofa context. Exciting times!
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby klonk on Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:20 pm

Trick wrote:
klonk wrote:Back to the original topic, learning a bit about Western fencing sharpens any understanding of Asian swordsmanship. What Western fencing brings to the table is a Cartesian understanding of timing and position. Never mind the archaic French terms, it is about distance, time and sneakiness.

Absolutely, but can you cleave a man in half in one cut with those “western(Olympic) fencing tools/toys ??……………But seriously, absolutely engaging in western(Olympic) fencing would probably be to an advantage if one want to learn fencing.……Allez


My best weapon in fencing is the sabre, which I and many criticize as the "fairy wand sword." It weighs 500 grams. You gain a point with contact anywhere above the waist. That is not realism.

Previously, the surrogate for the real saber was the singlestick, but that got dropped from competition because it left bruises.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby Trick on Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:49 am

There is the Mensur way of fencing, that way have its specific rules and protective gear and could because of that be seen as unrealistic too even that they use sharp blades.
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Re: Swordsmanship Curriculum

Postby windwalker on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:00 am

Trick wrote:There is the Mensur way of fencing, that way have its specific rules and protective gear and could because of that be seen as unrealistic too even that they use sharp blades.


some thoughts on this


Common wisdom, adhered to equally by modern and classical fencers, is that the two forms of swordplay are significantly different. With this comes the belief among classical fencers that what they do is pure fencing, a far more realistic way of using the sword in an age when the dictum was to hit without being hit.

Modern fencing is seen as corrupt and lacking the sportsmanship, fine manners, and decency of the classical period, fatally flawed by the introduction of electronic scoring, and with its technique destroyed by the introduction of the pistol grip and the flick.

If these assertions are true, then Classical fencing should have significantly different characteristics from modern fencing, characteristics which address both the social and technical shape of its practice.


Hitting without Being Hit by a Sharp Sword
The principle of hitting without being hit is an article of faith, widely quoted by classical fencers (Gaugler 2004, Evangelista 2006), and grounded in the idea that you should fence as though the points (foil and epee) or the blade (Sabre) of the weapon is sharp.

In their view modern fencing is unrealistic because it no longer treats the fencing weapon as an actual weapon and that it routinely accepts the validity of actions that would be impossible in an actual encounter with sharps.

This translates into a condemnation of any attack that starts without a full extension of the arm to establish an unmistakable threat the opponent would be forced to parry to avoid being wounded.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... rn_Fencing

Interesting reading in that many of the observations can be said of other war arts evolved towards common usage instead of use by specialized groups. .
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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