the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

In this Aikido tournament clip,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4qXuVA ... e=youtu.be

I can see the SC single leg (push shoulder, pull leading leg) has been used over and over. I don't see it used very much in MMA, BJJ, Judo, or western wrestling.

Does anybody know why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APuLdy_ ... e=youtu.be

Here is the SC Single leg (Kou).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhAe_K ... e=youtu.be

It's definitely taught in an MMA/No-gi context.



Pretty sure I once watched Eric Paulson teach a whole series a of variations on this move as well.

Why don't people use it more often? Not sure.

I guess it's because most people in MMA have wrestling backgrounds and prefer doing it the wrestling way?

I suspect the real reason why you see it so often in that Aikido tournament clip is that there's a rule that prohibits putting one knee on the ground, so they need to do a double/single leg without doing that. That would be my guess.

Re. MMA

It's harder to get because it's easier to defend than other styles of single leg - or a double leg for that matter. These in the clip tend to be applied higher on the human body; low entries or "shots" as you find in western wrestling have you coming in at an on your knee kind of level. This just isn't taught in any Traditional style that I am aware of. This makes them harder to defend and higher percentage.

More people are exposed to them in the West, so there's also the factor of why would you need something that is less effective when what's commonly being used already works so well. It's not that they are not something useful or could work. It's just lower percentage at the height and range it would be used - you are right in the hand striking range - the timing and opportunity would be very tight and difficult. Wrestling shots are looking to get under and by pass that dangerous space where the hands can find you.

No doubt they would not be so prevelent in these Aikido clips or in SC if striking was involved. I would bet good money you would see people going in lower for leg contact, rules permitting. I have seen this in other arts but I think it's too difficult to tell the frequency levels in competition. I'm really not sure that Aikido competition highlights is the best base line.

cloudz wrote:It's harder to get because it's easier to defend than other styles of single leg - or a double leg for that matter. These in the clip tend to be applied higher on the human body; low entries or "shots" as you find in western wrestling have you coming in at an on your knee kind of level. This just isn't taught in any Traditional style that I am aware of. This makes them harder to defend and higher percentage.

More people are exposed to them in the West, so there's also the factor of why would you need something that is less effective when what's commonly being used already works so well. It's not that they are not something useful or could work. It's just lower percentage at the height and range it would be used - you are right in the hand striking range - the timing and opportunity would be very tight and difficult. Wrestling shots are looking to get under and by pass that dangerous space where the hands can find you.

No doubt they would not be so prevelent in these Aikido clips or in SC if striking was involved. I would bet good money you would see people going in lower for leg contact, rules permitting.

Knee tap counter. Might mouse sinks in a whizzer and sweeps Cruz leg by turning over.

good counter. once in the clinch like that, it's probably even harder to pull off

It's actually pretty common in wrestling & sometimes in mma. Just look for knee tap.

I'd say it's not as common in mma because a running knee tap is hard to pull off without being punched or kicked in the face. It can be done from a clinch and this is usually the safer position to do it from especially when mixed in with close range strikes.

The other thing to note is that shooting a low single or double puts someone into a grounded position once one or both knees touches the ground. Once in this position under most mma rules knees & kicks are banned. It also helps that hits to the spine are also banned. So low shoots end up being safer moves to pull of than to separate the arms in each direction away from the head like in a knee tap.

dspyrido wrote:I'd say it's not as common in mma because a running knee tap is hard to pull off without being punched or kicked in the face.

If you

- push your opponent's leading arm to jam his own back arm, he can't punch you.
- use your leading leg to jam your opponent's leading leg, he can't kick you.

Is that because he loses the ability to react to what you just did or what you will do next ?
If only real fighters knew these clever tricks, they would never get punched or kicked!

There's another possibility of course, want to guess what it is ?

Move to jam the lead arm and the opponent reacts. They could:

- step in rising lead arm elbow or cross
- shuffle back and counter kick with rear leg
- step back with the lead leg and cross punch

Just some examples of countering the running version of a knee tap but I am sure there are better entry methods to set it up. At the simplest level - shell up and crash the opponent might minimize getting hit on the way in.