the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

what actually happens physiologically in your body when you train to create more "springiness", whether it's through plyometrics or whatever?

is it your ligaments and tendons getting stronger? is it your nervous system? your muscles? all of the above to deal with the deceleration and acceleration? how about the "spiral"/rotational aspects?

just curious. and well here in the USA, it's the day after thanksgiving and I'm not shopping haha. I feel like I've asked this in many ways over the years but eh. slow news day.

everything wrote:what actually happens physiologically in your body when you train to create more "springiness", whether it's through plyometrics or whatever?

What kind of springiness do you mean? Jumping high or springiness in movement?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2siPvCPo0

Mostly movement but are they different? If I improve this attribute, what am I doing?

everything wrote:Mostly movement but are they different? If I improve this attribute, what am I doing?

Ok I see... I don't know really, but I would like to think that it is about utilizing the same core structure and core muscles that are developed by jibengong and stance practice.

I believe the answer is something to do with midichlorians, but I fell asleep at that point in the movie.

Shoot I thought you have to be born with these powers especially if you have no father

Everything...... I am your father!

My experience has led me to believe that along with reconditioning the tissue by placing it under load; there is also a sort of kinetic, proprioceptive self-education that takes place.

For example, I learn to harness the rebound when I run in order to increase my performance. Then as a result of that, those tissues get stronger.

GrahamB wrote:Everything...... I am your father!

no-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o!

ctjla wrote:My experience has led me to believe that along with reconditioning the tissue by placing it under load; there is also a sort of kinetic, proprioceptive self-education that takes place.

For example, I learn to harness the rebound when I run in order to increase my performance. Then as a result of that, those tissues get stronger.

I feel like occasional kb swings seem to help me with this feeling coming back fairly quickly. could be the midichlorians, though. wonder what will "re mold" or whatever over time. er. while fighting middle age.

As i have a module entirely on this subject, I spoke to a number of people on the science of what is occuring in the body when people develop elastic / springy type movement. (in fact the guy in my partner training videos for ElasticBody is a Sports Scientist speciallising in Strength and Conditioning)

He, and another freind of mine, who is currently doing a Masters in Sports Science specialising in S&C, thinks it is the a big melting pot of the following:

1) Nerology - training of the nervous tissue to have a clearer 'go'/ action signal.
2) Muscle changes - the hunch is that consistant 'rebound' or 'bouncing' training re-arranges the muscle fibres and their associated connective tissue elements, slightly, to maximise their stretch and snap back. Look into Stretch Shortening Cycle for more information on this.
3) Connective tissue (I can hear Graham Groaning from here! haha) But its pretty unavoidable that connective tissues are big contributing factors of elastic forces in the body. Looking at GRF studies where jumps are used, the Achilles tendon and connected tissue of the lower limb are big contributers to the rebound.

It is hard to pinpoint what is responsible for what, and study design is tricky. First we have to identify what 'Spinginess' even is as a quality. We could say it is the ability of the muscle tendon unity to snap back to original position without damage but that misses the 'quality' of springiness that is found in some fighters and martial artists IMO.

thanks.

Sounds reasonable to me Chris - it has to be muscle, nerves and connective tissue, what else is there?

The physical changes might be adaptive and not the most significant contributory change - maybe the effects are more about repatterning and reprogamming how the mind is directing and using the body. maybe at the heart of it it's more like learning a technique than "s&c" but rather the technique is one of how to use the body in an inherently different way, which in this case would translate to giving it a developed attribute. The body has some natural levels of elastic quality anyway. That can be enhanced with the specific training but perhaps what it being most enhanced are the way we choose (direct ourselves) to move, use and train the body to manifest; to issue, and act and react to incoming forces. That's not to say 'it's all in the mind', but my hunch would be that the main cause and contributor to an elastic effect is more mental change in repatterning body movement/reactions, than a measurable physical body change. Any physical measurements I've seen around elasticity have only ever shown small increases.

The physical changes might be adaptive and not the most significant contributory change - maybe the effects are more about repatterning and reprogamming how the mind is directing and using the body. maybe at the heart of it it's more like learning a technique than "s&c" but rather the technique is one of how to use the body in an inherently different way, which in this case would translate to giving it a developed attribute. The body has some natural levels of elastic quality anyway. That can be enhanced with the specific training but perhaps what it being most enhanced are the way we choose (direct ourselves) to move, use and train the body to manifest; to issue, and act and react to incoming forces. That's not to say 'it's all in the mind', but my hunch would be that the main cause and contributor to an elastic effect is more mental change in repatterning body movement/reactions, than a measurable physical body change. Any physical measurements I've seen around elasticity have only ever shown small increases.

Absolutely, I put Neurology first in list is that it is a massive part of the 'speed' and 'elasticity' puzzle. As you mention the other parts are also likely contributing factors. Muscle responds relatively quickly to demands, so a change here is likely the first 'cab out of the rank' in terms of tissue repatterning.

Everything,

Looking into the Stretch Shortening Cycle is a good plan to understand a bit about elasticity and springiness.

https://www.scienceforsport.com/stretch-shortening-cycle/

A very good coach to check out is Nick Curson at Speed of sport and also the Marinovich system in general. They have a pretty proven track record of increasing athletes speed and explosivness. Nick Curson did a good interview with Joe Rogan on his podcast where he delves into how he trains fighters.

thanks.

I love to exploit the springiness in others
It is what tai chi is built for