What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby Strange on Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:26 pm

Yes Trick, i agree, talk is cheap
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby Overlord on Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:00 am



Dodge the gun and go for the kill~
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby Strange on Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:30 am

in chinese, tiger, eagle, monkey, rat/mouse are "old"
those who can speak chinese know what i mean.
"old" is cunning, and knowing the way :)
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby Storm on Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:16 am

I was intrigued by the original post and some other things I read in the past so decided to try this out: repeat one technique a thousand times per day for a thousand days. Today is day 215. It's hard as I was sick during these time but I managed to stick to it and train daily.
Am just curious if someone else also currently trains like this or did it in the past? I do not mean an exact numbet but a high number of repetitions over a longer period of time.

As a short info: the other influencing factors were:
1. The founder of a style I train (Katori Shinto Ryu- Iizasa Choisai Ienao) secluded himself in the Katori shrine for 1000 days to develop the style
2. An article by Mr. Sean Boulet on 100 days of Xinyiliuhequan training http://www.sixharmonyconsulting.com/p/100-days.html?m=1
3. I trained Karate in the past and this is said about Naihanchi/Tekki "The form is so important to old style karate that Kentsu Yabu (a student of Itosu) often told his students 'Karate begins and ends with Naihanchi' and admonished his students must practice the kata 10,000 times to make it their own." (from the Wikipedia Naihanchi article)
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby johnwang on Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:25 pm

Storm wrote:Am just curious if someone else also currently trains like this or did it in the past?

When I

- was a beginner, I train "finish move" by using this method.
- am no longer a beginner, I train "entering strategy" by using this method.

Here is an "entering strategy" training.

I'm still allergic to "push".
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby C.J.W. on Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:36 pm

Overlord wrote:Guo had learn Baji and Monkey fist before Xingyi, so his moves is reknown as fast and agile.
His Beng according to my teacher is zig zag and not straight line.

Secondly, one of Li Cunyi and Guo student went to exchange skills with Shanxi branch, and they found his attack is unstoppable by Shanxi branch. This exchange is of course friendly indoor exchange of skills. So my teacher concluded that because Hebei infused bit of Baji power, so it’s hard to stop if not life and death explosive power used.

I really doubt Guo is that venerable and weak as compare to his kungfu senior. Plus I found chicken Beng is so versatile. But needs bit of courage to test under pressure.


I thought you might be interested in hearing what Shanxi Xingyi guys have to say regarding the infamous exchange between Guo Yunshen and Che Yizhai: ;) ;D



IMO, while I agree that Hebei Xingyi has a a heavier Baji-like power, Shanxi Xingyi is actually more agile and versatile in terms of blending striking and grappling.

If even middle-aged Che style guys with pot bellies can move this well, I think it wouldn't be unfair to say that Che Yizhai would have been quite a handful even for Guo Yunshen.

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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby Overlord on Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:10 pm

C.J.W. wrote:
Overlord wrote:Guo had learn Baji and Monkey fist before Xingyi, so his moves is reknown as fast and agile.
His Beng according to my teacher is zig zag and not straight line.

Secondly, one of Li Cunyi and Guo student went to exchange skills with Shanxi branch, and they found his attack is unstoppable by Shanxi branch. This exchange is of course friendly indoor exchange of skills. So my teacher concluded that because Hebei infused bit of Baji power, so it’s hard to stop if not life and death explosive power used.

I really doubt Guo is that venerable and weak as compare to his kungfu senior. Plus I found chicken Beng is so versatile. But needs bit of courage to test under pressure.


I thought you might be interested in hearing what Shanxi Xingyi guys have to say regarding the infamous exchange between Guo Yunshen and Che Yizhai: ;) ;D



IMO, while I agree that Hebei Xingyi has a a heavier Baji-like power, Shanxi Xingyi is actually more agile and versatile in terms of blending striking and grappling.

If even middle-aged Che style guys with pot bellies can move this well, I think it wouldn't be unfair to say that Che Yizhai would have been quite a handful even for Guo Yunshen.



CJW

Ironically the second clip proves my point.
Refer to 8:40 where Baji was clearly demonstrated ~

From what I know, Che family changed the Xingyi form into more practical method of drilling 108 hands altogether ~
This clip certainly does not cover that.

Before Guo was famous for Beng he was great in sword, killing the bandit boss with sword and sentenced to prison.
So his Beng is not definitely not up front direct approach but more of swords tactics, not as indicated in the first clip.

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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby C.J.W. on Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:23 pm

Overlord,

Actually, I'm a little confused.

I thought you were saying that because Hebei style has Baji mixed in, it has more power than Shanxi style -- suggesting that Shanxi guys would have had a hard time dealing with Guo's beng chuan.

So if my video clip clears shows that Shanxi style ALSO has Baji power, how does this prove your point?

If anything, I believe this means that Shanxi style has just as much power as Hebei styles in addition to being faster and more agile in general.
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby Overlord on Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:58 pm

C.J.W. wrote:Overlord,

Actually, I'm a little confused.

I thought you were saying that because Hebei style has Baji mixed in, it has more power than Shanxi style -- suggesting that Shanxi guys would have had a hard time dealing with Guo's beng chuan.

So if my video clip clears shows that Shanxi style ALSO has Baji power, how does this prove your point?

If anything, I believe this means that Shanxi style has just as much power as Hebei styles in addition to being faster and more agile in general.


AFAIK
It’s one of Guo’s or Li Cunyi’s student went to Shangxi and they found his force is unstoppable.
Guo himself learnt Baji, Monkey fist before Xingyi and was excelled in sword.

There are hidden teachings within each school.
The Song was known for it’s Neigong Si Jing and Pangeng,
Che from touching hand with them is 108 hands. But definitely not as shown in clip and certainly not Baji.
The guy did not even bother to change the Baji name of the move: Fierce tiger climbing uphill 猛虎硬爬山~

I really don’t care if Shangxi is better than Hebei, or Hebei better than Shangxi,
but the story of Guo being defeated I long have a suspicion:
1, Guo does not necessarily go linear upfront approach unlike Shang Yunxiang
2, Even in straight format Guo’s timing is elusive. It’s hard to know when strike taking its effect. You know it’s coming but can’t prepare for it.

I am sorry about the confusion CJW, but it’s just a very personal opinion.
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby C.J.W. on Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:45 pm

It's all good.

All I'm saying is it's important to be objective when assessing the pros and cons of a system.

P.S. My grand teacher, who was from Shandong, knew Shang Yunxiang personally and actually had the opportunity to train under him. So I can tell you for sure that Shang didn't always "go linear" either. ;)
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby GrahamB on Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:24 am

From my experience in martial arts, you get known by other people for techniques that aren't necessarily reflective of your game or that you don't think are that key to what you do - it's just something that worked well on them and they start telling other people and before you know it you're "king of the standing inverted foot lock" or some other such nonsense. You have no control over this stuff.

I think the same thing happened to GYS and Beng Quan :)
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby Overlord on Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:05 pm

C.J.W. wrote:It's all good.

All I'm saying is it's important to be objective when assessing the pros and cons of a system.

P.S. My grand teacher, who was from Shandong, knew Shang Yunxiang personally and actually had the opportunity to train under him. So I can tell you for sure that Shang didn't always "go linear" either. ;)


Oh great! This is a good thing to know.
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby Appledog on Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:44 am

johnwang wrote:Assume you just train one technique for the next 2 years such as "a kick to the knee followed by a punch to the face". If you repeat this combo 2,000 times daily with your partner (about 2 hours), in 2 years you have repeated this 2 x 365 x 2000 = 1,460,000 times.

After you have drilled this move almost 1.5 million times, when you use it against your opponent, your successful rate should be high. IMO, it's worthwhile to spend 2 years of your life time to develop some dependable MA skill so you can use it for the rest of your life.

What's your opinion on this?


I've spent the last month training the same basic technique for 1 hour every morning in my class. I only have 2 students left now. The basic technique is raise hands. I.E. the first move of tai chi. I do allow minor variations, which amount to the 1st feng zhi quiang qigong exercise, but most of the time is double raise hands, or, single raise hands (one hand at a time).

It's been an interesting experience. I can say after 1 month I am interested in pursuing this for 2 hours plus a day for at least the next two to three months -- minimum.
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby Overlord on Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:31 am

C.J.W. wrote:It's all good.

All I'm saying is it's important to be objective when assessing the pros and cons of a system.

P.S. My grand teacher, who was from Shandong, knew Shang Yunxiang personally and actually had the opportunity to train under him. So I can tell you for sure that Shang didn't always "go linear" either. ;)


CJW
The info I got sourced back to Zhou Jichun ~
Apparently one of Hebei third generation went to further his refinement in Shanxi, and Shanxi practitioners at his generation found it hard to diffuse his attack when touch hand. His surname is Wong, Zhou because of poor memory suspect it maybe Wong Junchen, but could not be certain of his given name.
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Re: What if you just train one technique for the next 2 years?

Postby dspyrido on Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:05 pm

Appledog wrote:
johnwang wrote:Assume you just train one technique for the next 2 years such as "a kick to the knee followed by a punch to the face". If you repeat this combo 2,000 times daily with your partner (about 2 hours), in 2 years you have repeated this 2 x 365 x 2000 = 1,460,000 times.

After you have drilled this move almost 1.5 million times, when you use it against your opponent, your successful rate should be high. IMO, it's worthwhile to spend 2 years of your life time to develop some dependable MA skill so you can use it for the rest of your life.

What's your opinion on this?


I've spent the last month training the same basic technique for 1 hour every morning in my class. I only have 2 students left now. The basic technique is raise hands. I.E. the first move of tai chi. I do allow minor variations, which amount to the 1st feng zhi quiang qigong exercise, but most of the time is double raise hands, or, single raise hands (one hand at a time).

It's been an interesting experience. I can say after 1 month I am interested in pursuing this for 2 hours plus a day for at least the next two to three months -- minimum.


Keep up this sort of training and you will probably only have 1 student... you. :-\

The problem with this sort of training is that it's a specialisation. I think specialisations should only be done after the fundamentals are in place. Then the decision of where to specialise can be based on personal preference and with full awareness of why.
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