Xing-yi Beng Chuan and wing chun chain punch

[wingchun]

1. What are the body connections that both Xing-Yi Beng Chuan and wing chun chain punch share in common?
2. In regards to power generation in what ways is Beng Chuan style punch more powerful than wing chun style punch?
3. What are the details in body connection and punching mechanics of Hsing-yi Beng Chuan that can be used to alter or enhance the knock out power effect of a wing chun punch?

[MaartenSFS]

I use the latter as an entry technique and finish with a Bengquan-like punch. They honestly don't share much, as far as power-generation is concerned, and are used differently. Think of the Bengquan as being mostly linear and the Lianhuan Chongquan as being mostly circular.

[johnwang]

1. What are the body connections that both Xing-Yi Beng Chuan and wing chun chain punch share in common?

It's easy to see the big difference in both form training.

1. WC chain punch - move the arm only while body is frozen.
2. XY punch - the moving body with footwork push the punch.

[KEND]

WC chain punch linear, driven by shoulder blade and kinetic linkage from foot upwards, Hsing yi Beng appears linear but force vector is closing/opening[left to right , right to left]. giving resultant angled punch driven by ribs/hips, Look same, different animals

[marvin8]

1. What are the body connections that both Xing-Yi Beng Chuan and wing chun chain punch share in common?

They both use bows (e.g., joints, etc.)

2. In regards to power generation in what ways is Beng Chuan style punch more powerful than wing chun style punch?

I don't know of any research that shows it is.

Hendrik Santo's wing chun chain punch uses the kinetic chain (whole body power, torque, etc.) through the seven bows: 1) Foot Arch 2) Ankles, 3) Knees, 4) pelvis, 5) shoulders, 6) Elbows, 7) Wrists making it more powerful than beng chuan.

He explains (long winded) it here. You can skip to 9:28.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31CJ7YK35cg&t=9m28s

[Fa Xing]

[wayne hansen]

One of the main things that differs is the position of the knuckles at the end
It totally changes the mechanics of the whole technique
The two are incompatible
I would say both arts are

[MaartenSFS]

1. What are the body connections that both Xing-Yi Beng Chuan and wing chun chain punch share in common?

They both use bows (e.g., joints, etc.)

2. In regards to power generation in what ways is Beng Chuan style punch more powerful than wing chun style punch?

I don't know of any research that shows it is.

Hendrik Santo's wing chun chain punch uses the kinetic chain (whole body power, torque, etc.) through the seven bows: 1) Foot Arch 2) Ankles, 3) Knees, 4) pelvis, 5) shoulders, 6) Elbows, 7) Wrists making it more powerful than beng chuan.

He explains (long winded) it here. You can skip to 9:28.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31CJ7YK35cg&t=9m28s

I was utterly unimpressed by that... His punch is stronger because of your little list? Please... You theorise too much.

[marvin8]

1. What are the body connections that both Xing-Yi Beng Chuan and wing chun chain punch share in common?

They both use bows (e.g., joints, etc.)

2. In regards to power generation in what ways is Beng Chuan style punch more powerful than wing chun style punch?

I don't know of any research that shows it is.

Hendrik Santo's wing chun chain punch uses the kinetic chain (whole body power, torque, etc.) through the seven bows: 1) Foot Arch 2) Ankles, 3) Knees, 4) pelvis, 5) shoulders, 6) Elbows, 7) Wrists making it more powerful than beng chuan.

He explains (long winded) it here. You can skip to 9:28.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31CJ7YK35cg&t=9m28s

I was utterly unimpressed by that... His punch is stronger because of your little list? Please... You theorise too much.

Hendrik's bows list, not mine. I did not opine on Hendrik's skill.

No theory. I posted studies (e.g., javelin throw, boxing, baseball, etc.) that gave facts and data (speed, power and distance measurements) showing the kinetic chain generated the most power.

If you have research counter to these studies, please post them and/or explain your "high level, master" punches.

[wingchun]

Can someone who practice Xing-Yi Please describe the bio-mechanical details of how the " frame compression" component of the Xing-Yi punch is done to bounce power up from the ground into the hand or fist?

[dspyrido]

First problem is WC - which branch or flavour of it? Second problem is XY - which branch or flavour of it? Then it's also the instructors right?

But let's just sweep all that aside and talk generalisations.

- In what has to be the most common WC out there the Yip Man lineage you are to spend a few years focusing on sil lum tao. That is body stationary, feet in in yee jee kim ... pigeon stance and isolate the arms to chain punch....to the head.
- In XY - focus on the harmonies while moving the feet. Hand and foot, knee elbow, hip shoulders etc. Plus the 5-6 bows (depends on school) in order to punch ... the body.

After a few years one has moved onto chum kiu where the stance starts to look eerily like XY except ... it's not. The other has decided to move onto mixing the 5 elements into examples and applications trying to apply what was being taught on day 1.

Now XY is more powerful on a single punch. Why? It starts with simple physics of more mass and goes to conditioning the elastic "bows" to add more the power.

The other tends to machine gun more punches but due to not focusing as much on mobility it is not as connected and not as strong. Knowing this WC attempts to make up for it by trying to throw lots more punches.

Having spent a fair amount of time in both styles I can confidently say - I don't mind hitting a bony part using a WC punch but this is actually is more like fire vs. wood. If I want to hit the soft part of the body the nicest penetration will come from wood or a variation I like is the stepping cross.

In the end I think what is more important is not way the arm moves but the engine that powers it (the body). Then what is vital is delivering the impact to the right spot at the right time.

[wingchun]

thanks for the reply dspyrido!
What are the differences between the Xing-Yi engine that powers it (the body) compared to the wing chun engine that powers it (the body)?

[Bao]

thanks for the reply dspyrido!
What are the differences between the Xing-Yi engine that powers it (the body) compared to the wing chun engine that powers it (the body)?

You have already posted the same OP all over the internet and got a whole lot of answers on that and differences of mechanics. Why are you still writing questions?

[KEND]

The WC punch is down the centerline driven by linkage from foot, sometimes using phoenix fist, you need to condition hands and strengthen knuckles and wrist for maximum effect, resembles Shaolin vertical fist. The Hsing yi punch needs some power to flatten the fascia but mainly depends on shock wave[ generated by closing ribs and hips] to damage the internal organs. I have measured the force of the HY punch and it is much less than the punch described above. That being said the WC punch energy transfer damages the fascia and muscle, possibly penetrating to the organ, the HY punch focuses a shock wave to the organ directly using a fist configuration

[Yeung]

The Wing Chun Chain Punching was a bad joke in the Wing Chun Community, but it seems that it is also a bad joke in the Xing Yi Community as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... wqv-EWXzS8