Mimic yourself as ...

[johnwang]

In order to fully test the

- "anti-grappling", you have to find a good grappler.
- "anti-striking", you have to find a good striker.

People said that when you test

- "anti-grappling", you have to mimic a good grappler.
- "anti-striking", you have to mimic a good striker.

But IMO, if you can mimic a good grappler (or striker), you are already a good grappler (or striker).

Can you mimic yourself as float like a butterfly, sting like a bee? What's your opinion on this?

[Trick]

Years back when I was in the early stages of my TJQ and XYQ practice I joined some Boxing friends to do free sparring with. First meeting I guess I thought -well I have boxing gloves on and it’s boxing, I put up my hands in a “usual” boxing guard(and what I thought boxing mood) and began eating punches. What the ...., i thought, this isn’t working. So I lowered that guard, adjusted the distance - just as I had been doing years back when I did Karate, I went into my “karate” mood(without kicks) and it became alright. From there I began to “play around” doing shuffles - let my arm dangling - weaving one arm and the other punch things, things you see those high level boxers do in the ring, and it worked very well, i guess it made me feel relaxed and free. Well of course it was just sparring and my boxing friends (most probably) took it easy

[Dmitri]

Yeah you can't "mimick skill". Think of trying to mimick a good ballet dancer or a violin player... The results with emulating movement of a good striker or wrestler without actually having the skills would look just as ridiculous.

[marvin8]

In order to fully test the

- "anti-grappling", you have to find a good grappler.
- "anti-striking", you have to find a good striker.

People said that when you test

- "anti-grappling", you have to mimic a good grappler.
- "anti-striking", you have to mimic a good striker.

But IMO, if you can mimic a good grappler (or striker), you are already a good grappler (or striker).

That is not what people said. People said any student can adjust (vary) the distance or vary the way he punches:

Do you agree that one can do the following, even if they are not a "good" puncher? (A skilled puncher performs these at a higher level than an unskilled puncher.) . . .

Any student can "mimic a skilled puncher" by varying their:

1) Timing — delay time in between combination punches, base punch on A's (receiver's) reactions, etc.
2) Distance — change distance by moving their feet.
3) Speed — punch slow, normal or fast.
4) Position (angle) — change angle by moving their feet.

Trick gave an example of his mimicking a skilled puncher by varying the distance and the way he punches, which anyone can do:

...., i thought, this isn’t working. So I lowered that guard, adjusted the distance - just as I had been doing years back when I did Karate, I went into my “karate” mood(without kicks) and it became alright. From there I began to “play around” doing shuffles - let my arm dangling - weaving one arm and the other punch things, things you see those high level boxers do in the ring, and it worked very well, i guess it made me feel relaxed and free. Well of course it was just sparring and my boxing friends (most probably) took it easy

[windwalker]

Can you mimic yourself as float like a butterfly, sting like a bee? What's your opinion on this?

Of the teachers I knew, all of them had people come in from the outside to give their guys experience.
teacher Brenden Lai 7* mantis used to have an open gym day for people to come in and spar with his guys.

Teacher David Chin, noted hop gar teacher told me he would have thai boxers come to his gym to spar with his guys who entered into mma matches, in order for them to gain the experience and develop strategies that worked consistent with their training or change the training as needed if it didn’t or couldn’t address it.

It may not be a problem if one is just training for SD, in gen the skill level outside of competitive events is not the same, although the “intention” may be equal or even greater.

Training this " mind set" "conflict de escalation" "situational awareness" might even be more important than training for the competitive event different mind set, different training requirements.


If a teacher is training others to interact with others in a competitive environment he or she, should be or have experienced enough to know what he knows and what he does not.

Sometimes teachers overestimate their skill based on interactions with their students, or others within the same genre as their practice.

[marvin8]

Dictionary definition — mimic:
1. imitate (someone or their actions or words), typically in order to entertain or ridicule.
"she mimicked Eileen's voice"

Excerpt from " What is ‘Aliveness’ Training in Grappling & How To Benefit From it," https://www.bjjee.com/articles/what-is- ... t-from-it/:

Aliveness often attempts to mimic the level of resistance found in the activity the training is intended to prepare a student for, i.e. Hand-to-Hand Combat or Combat sport. According to BJJ black belt Matt Thornton (founder of Straight Blast Gym International), an Alive training method must incorporate Movement, including spontaneous footwork and the active resistance and intent of all parties during drills or sparring; Timing, in which there is no “predictable rhythm… pattern, repeatable series of sets” which would lead students away from acquiring applicable skill; and Energy, the practice of committing, with intent and realism, a given technique during sparring, “bag work” or drills.

Excerpts from "The Real Problem: Traditional vs Scientific Training Methodologies in Martial Arts," https://martialmethodology.wordpress.co ... tial-arts/:

Coaches have long argued over the merits of block vs random practice. Block practice is the mere execution of a technique in a highly controlled and often invariable atmosphere.Random practice, on the other hand, seeks to mimic the game itself by simulating a higher level of variability (change in factors such as distance). . . .

Block (traditional) practice is too focused on technique. Technique is vitally important, but perfecting technique in a vacuum gives you a false sense of mastery. You never practice the reading, distancing, and pressure management aspects they way you will need them in a fight. In reality, the actual use of your techniques will be in a shifting environment — not a controlled one — with an uncooperative opponent. Yet block practice does not offer that sort of practice. . . .

The way traditional and RBSD folks think about techniques tends to pre-qualify a given technique as “practical” even if the individual learner has no competence in using it. This can lend itself to neglect scientific training methods which allow the learner to perfect not just the technique, but all the skills that allow that technique to be successful. . . Rather, they require practice that mimics as closely as possible the dynamics of a real fight: namely, honest interaction with an unscripted, uncooperative opponent.

[johnwang]

Any student can "mimic a skilled puncher" by varying their:

1) Timing — delay time in between combination punches, base punch on A's (receiver's) reactions, etc.
2) Distance — change distance by moving their feet.
3) Speed — punch slow, normal or fast.
4) Position (angle) — change angle by moving their feet.

All these 4 requirement are used in normal sparring (also used in my yesterday testing). But 1-4 are relative and not absolute.

If a new student can only throw a punch within 1/2 second, he can't mimic to throw a punch with in 1/3 second. He just doesn't have the ability to mimic that speed.

[marvin8]

Any student can "mimic a skilled puncher" by varying their:

1) Timing — delay time in between combination punches, base punch on A's (receiver's) reactions, etc.
2) Distance — change distance by moving their feet.
3) Speed — punch slow, normal or fast.
4) Position (angle) — change angle by moving their feet.

All these 4 requirement are used in normal sparring (also used in my yesterday testing). But 1-4 are relative and not absolute.

I never said you didn't.

I am not commenting on your classes themselves. Since, I haven't been to one.

Since you "did all that," we agree.

Since you understand my meaning of mimic (by varying), I don't understand you're saying you disagree with something I didn't say.

If a new student can only throw a punch within 1/2 second, he can't mimic to throw a punch with in 1/3 second. He just doesn't have the ability to mimic that speed.

I never said he could. I said, "Any student can vary his punching speed: slower, normal or faster."

[johnwang]

Since you "did all that," we agree.

The old rhino guard clips that I have put up was only used for recording technique. There was no fighting (win or lose) intend involved. The new clips that I recorded yesterday had fighting intend in it. Student even ran out of gas by doing it. I agree that the data collected from true sparring (even with limited technique) can be more useful.

[klonk]

In order to fully test the

- "anti-grappling", you have to find a good grappler.
- "anti-striking", you have to find a good striker.

People said that when you test

- "anti-grappling", you have to mimic a good grappler.
- "anti-striking", you have to mimic a good striker.

But IMO, if you can mimic a good grappler (or striker), you are already a good grappler (or striker).

Can you mimic yourself as float like a butterfly, sting like a bee? What's your opinion on this?

I cannot mimic a good grappler and thrower. It is not my best game. There are a couple of things I can do in that line, but a real expert would say my skills are half-assed. You, with national championships and international coaching to your credit, would be a better tester for anti-grappling.

Test against the problem! If I say my computer program can handle a million inputs with no problem, that's fine until a million inputs arrive.

[johnwang]

We recorded 3 clips. Here is the 1st one.

- A throws 20 punches at B's head.
- B uses rhino guard to protect his head.

Did they mimic themselves as good boxers? I believe they have tried.

[klonk]

They did well. They move well! But there were moments when Red Gloves could have crowded in on Black Gloves, forcing Black's guard high and out of the way to (Red's) right, and gone for the liver punch.

So far as protecting the head, they both did very well.

[klonk]

There were moments when a counter-punch (from either man) might have scored a headshot, but if I understand the drill here, one does offense and the other does defense.

[everything]

this question was asked and answered many times in mma, especially in the classic striker vs. grappler matches. the answer is almost always "it depends".

[Dmitri]

We recorded 3 clips. Here is the 1st one.

- A throws 20 punches at B's head.
- B uses rhino guard to protect his head.

Did they mimic themselves as good boxers? I believe they have tried.

The "attacker" is way out of range IMO; pinches should be thrown at the head/body, not at the guard. Tell him to "get in there". It's like he's afraid of that guard (may be rightfully so, but if I were him I would try to close the distance first, and then start punching).
FWIW