Double Weighted

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Double Weighted

Postby johnwang on Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:37 am

Steve James wrote:My point is that it's better to focus on what we should do rather than on what we shouldn't. For ex., what is the sense of debating what "not sung" means. It's hard enough to define "sung." So, I would rather define and debate "single weighted-ness," since that is not a fault.

Agree with you 100% there. In grade school, during my early year, there are a section of exam that you try to correct the error in a sentence.

Such as:

1. Telephone's book -> telephone book
2. Book of telephone -> telephone book
3. He have -> He has
4. I do ... yesterday -> I did ... yesterday.
5. ...

Later on teacher found out that some students might remember the wrong way of doing instead of remember the right way of doing.

People have talk about brute force, death force. Even today, I still have no idea what those 2 terms mean. IMO, why should I worry about something that's not an issue for me?
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby johnwang on Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:54 am

johnwang wrote:Is this double weighted?


Nobody care to comment on this example?

1. We can discuss theory only.
2. We can also discuss theory along with concrete example.

IMO, 2 > 1
Last edited by johnwang on Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby origami_itto on Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:12 pm

johnwang wrote:
johnwang wrote:Is this double weighted?


Nobody care to comment on this example?

1. We can discuss theory only.
2. We can also discuss theory along with concrete example.

IMO, 2 > 1


On the whole I'd say that he wasn't, he's moving freely and not bound up or clumsy.

Richard Clear does a pretty good job of explaining it here with some, literally, concrete examples.

Last edited by origami_itto on Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby johnwang on Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:33 pm

Without any understanding of "double weighted", you can still to do this. What does that mean?

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Re: Double Weighted

Postby origami_itto on Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:58 pm

johnwang wrote:Without any understanding of "double weighted", you can still to do this. What does that mean?



I guess it means you're working with a different system, paradigm, set of concepts, process, whatever you want to call it.

This isn't religion, man, there isn't just one right way to do it or you're going to hell. Many ways to put a fist in a face.
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby vagabond on Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:08 am

"It is when we do not know exactly what we should do, when the effects and conditions of our actions can no longer be calculated, and when we have nowhere else to turn, even to our 'self,' that we encounter something like responsibility. In the 'fable' - in the sense both of the Aesopian narrative and moral, and more generally of any exemplary allegory of decision - we read the most rigorous paradoxes or enigmas of this ethico-political tradition. Devoted again and again to installing or restoring subjectivity as the sine qua non of responsible action and the claim to rights, the fable, which wants to offer lessons, only opens the most abyssal aporias instead. To teach singularity it offers comparison, to underline independence it resorts to necessity. What this fragility of the genre means is not that it is incoherent or somehow 'simple,' but rather that it opens the possibility of another kind of reading, less the search for a lesson or a rule to be applied than our exposure to something that breaks with the regimes of meaning and sense it purports to offer, to something irreducible to our selves and what we already know how to do. This experience of intolerable complexity, linked with the ongoing inevitability of a decision, (we cannot simply stop reading, even when we put down the book),is what we call here, in a variety of registers, an openness to the other, impossibility, or simply difficulty."

you really, really need to talk a whole lot less
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby origami_itto on Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:25 am

You should just not talk at all.
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby wiesiek on Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:42 am

hehe,
yes , vagabond shot kinda of Monthy P. bullet :)

from all RSF >double weighted< threads I came to conclusion, that simplest European translation can be:
NEVER LOCK TWO CONSECUTIVE JOINTS
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby vagabond on Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:06 am

Emmon asks, “If an inexperienced beginner on the Way should suddenly encounter someone intent on killing him, what must he do to conform with the Way?”

Master Nyuri answers, “Nothing special needs to be done, because if he can escape, he will do so. If he cannot escape, he will have to endure it. If it is endurable, he will have to suffer it out. If it is not endurable, he will cry out.”

“If he cries out, how then does he differ from one who still holds the view of I?”

Nyuri: “When a bell is struck with a mallet, the sound quite naturally comes out of itself. So why should one call it an I? But if, on being killed, you lay hold of the heart and constrain it, and endure silently with clenched teeth, this is sure to produce a superego!”

Emmon: “A man who cries out in pain or grief is surely swayed by his feelings; how can that be the same as the sound from the bell?”

Nyuri: “Talking about same and not same only shows how confused you are. Your question arises from your own fancies and speculations. For if the heart is empty and makes no distinctions, the Way functions according to its own nature.”

Emmon: “I have heard it said that the Buddha cannot be wounded by weapons, is not oppressed by suffering, cannot be compelled by forms, and that his heart does not get agitated. What does this mean?”

Nyuri: “If one fully realizes that all things are devoid of a self, then whether emitting a sound or not emitting a sound, whether agitated or not agitated, all accords with the principle of the Way, without let or hindrance.”

You should just not talk at all.


to be clear, i mostly agree with you. however, as you yourself pointed out, we're on the internet, godawful place though it is. we can't adjust each others hips or destroy each other's weak spots, and so all we're left with is talk. should talk of a method of conflict avoid conflict?
Last edited by vagabond on Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby johnwang on Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:02 pm

vagabond wrote:all we're left with is talk.

It's fun to talk, but it's more fun to talk with concrete example such as a clip. Is it truly that difficult to find meaning clips for double weighted discussion?

Is this double weighted?

Image

Last edited by johnwang on Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby origami_itto on Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:37 pm

johnwang wrote:
vagabond wrote:all we're left with is talk.

It's fun to talk, but it's more fun to talk with concrete example such as a clip. Is it truly that difficult to find meaning clips for double weighted discussion?

Is this double weighted?

Image



Watch the clip of Richard clear that I posted, he addresses this exact question in some depth.
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:47 pm

If you have to ask if the opening move is double weighted it might be that you should be discussing something other than tai chi
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby origami_itto on Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:02 pm

wiesiek wrote:from all RSF >double weighted< threads I came to conclusion, that simplest European translation can be:
NEVER LOCK TWO CONSECUTIVE JOINTS


Is lock the correct idea, though? If even one joint is locked, your already in trouble, imho.

Maybe "never make two consecutive body segments substantial" gets closer to the meaning?

should talk of a method of conflict avoid conflict?


I pay lip service to a method of harmony, not conflict
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby everything on Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:08 pm

Really enjoyed the cinder block video.

I don't know what it means but it was cool
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Re: Double Weighted

Postby johnwang on Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:28 pm

wiesiek wrote:NEVER LOCK TWO CONSECUTIVE JOINTS

How to do that? Do you have any good example (such as a clip)? If we can't make something happen, how can we prevent it? When you "float like a butterfly", at what point that your 2 consecutive joints will be locked?
Last edited by johnwang on Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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