FMA footwork?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

FMA footwork?

Postby everything on Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:39 am

I thought it was mainly about 45 or 30 deg angles and some sidestepping, but here is a cool diagram

Image

and here is a random video of "full triangle" pattern as one example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo7rX5K8liQ

One thing caught my eye more after all the "stick adhere follow" blah blah: the assumption that your attacker is armed, even if you can't see it, so you prefer to evade and can not take a hit or block or absorb.

https://steemit.com/martial-arts/@cheah ... f-footwork

In Filipino martial arts, when faced with an incoming blow, the preferred approach is to get out of the way. To understand why, simply replace Drago’s gloves with knives.

You can be as tough as Rocky, but mere flesh and bone isn’t going to stop steel and hardwood.

FMA originates from a weapon-based culture. The main assumption is that everyone is either armed or has ready access to a weapon. There is no way you can block a blade or stick with your body. You’ll just end up a bleeding, broken mess. Even if you don’t see a weapon, it doesn’t mean that the threat doesn’t have one—in the dark, against a small blade, you can’t tell if the threat is armed until your lifeblood gushes out on the floor.

You cannot afford to take a hit in FMA. The surest defence is to evade.


Not really sure what my question is here...
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:27 pm

I was taught all these patterns by the three greats Edgar Sulite,Tony Diego and Chris/Topher Ricketts
I found them pretty basic and much preferred the illustrisimo approach
Edgar taught Leo's stuff along with the caballaro stuff
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby everything on Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:57 pm

triangle, side steps, and a v or x pattern are pretty basic in my favorite sport but immensely useful as 1v1 or team patterns. I really like how this diagram shows different ideas instead of saying "look left, look right", etc., but no idea what most of them are.

I think since all the JKD/FMA talk, the double sticks stuff has seemed so fascinating to me (never learned any of it). I like how the assumption seems very different to taijiquan's (needs sticking). would like to read someone's commentary on baguazhang footwork compared/contrasted with fma's if anyone here happens to know a lot about both of these?.
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby .Q. on Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:31 pm

I use primarily ducking, forward triangle, L, and single double triple takeoff. Never learned Escrima but I learned these as Bagua footworks. They are really useful and honestly I'm pretty bad at going in straight. I have a tendency to lean back when going straight in for attack (for fear of being countered), so I prefer using indirect entries as it helps me to maintain my neck structure. The L footwork (more like T since I can go either way after going straight) is really great for chasing people that dodges your rush in certain ways. My L is probably different from Escrima version though. It involves a twist in the trunk similar to circle walking and I've never seen that in Escrima clips.
I feel some of the more complex footworks listed are more for drills than actual usage (as they would just become one of the simpler patterns). One interesting note is
This diagram is really good. Most of the Bagua diagrams I see in books I can't even make out what they mean, though I do like that they contain patterns with arcs in them.
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby everything on Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:43 pm

oh that sounds cool. care to elaborate more? L seems sort of self explanatory but, could you talk about the "takeoffs" as an example?

I don't usually think of baguazhang as "double sticks"... but there are those "double deerhorn knives" which seems like it would use similar stepping patterns (but everything has more "circular" movement?)?
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:45 pm

Q I remember my first arnis teacher learning some circular foot stepping
He tried it on me doing sinawali
I ended up chasing him all over the hall
I told him never to try that on a ba kua again
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby .Q. on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:00 am

The "takeoffs" just involve moving in zig zag pattern to approach opponent at the angle they're not comfortable with. The most basic version, "single", involves you trying to enter through inside or outside door by going diagonal. If they don't react quick enough you attack right there. Good boxers tend to move away from you as soon as you step diagonal. If you know where they like to go and you have the ability to immediately cut to the opposite side to intercept (this is the double), you can really catch them before they're ready. The triple is just changing direction one more time if necessary so I don't consider it particularly unique. The hard part is in changing directions without pause, so if you can do it one time for the double you can do it infinite times. For this to be useful, you'll need several things in your toolbox. Besides the footwork, you'll also need ability to fight in both left and right leading stances. This is easiest to use against boxers because if kicks are allowed you might have to start stepping from further range, which makes it easier to recognize and defend against. Grapplers tend to react differently so you'll also have to adjust the patterns too.
Don't know much about weapons so can't comment on the relationship.
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby .Q. on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:54 am

wayne hansen wrote:Q I remember my first arnis teacher learning some circular foot stepping
He tried it on me doing sinawali
I ended up chasing him all over the hall
I told him never to try that on a ba kua again

I didn't know they have circular footwork. I don't know much about Arnis/Escrima besides the videos online and that diagram.
I'm assuming you cut diagonally in the direction he's circling towards?
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:11 pm

I don't know where he got the circular stepping from
It was just that ba kua stepping was superior
I just thought it was a funny story
We were practicing double sinawali at the time so the hand movements really dictate the stepping
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby johnwang on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:30 pm

The "wheeling" step that you can lead your opponent into the emptiness is missing in that chart.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby everything on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:37 pm

damn this sounds interesting to me. if I could get back into MA, I'd want to do a double stick thing with a lot of footwork (also for cross-training reasons). from a "prepper" pov, I'd rather be good with "weapons at hand", rhythm, timing, etc.
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby marvin8 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:15 pm

everything wrote:would like to read someone's commentary on baguazhang footwork compared/contrasted with fma's if anyone here happens to know a lot about both of these?.

No commentary. But, excerpt from "The Fundamentals of Pa Kua Chang:"

Park Bok Nam and Dan Miller wrote:Chapter 3 - Pa Kua Chang Footwork

Eight Direction Rooted Stepping 65
The Stance for Combat 65
Basic Pa Fang Ken Pu Practice 68
The Jump Step 68
The Full Step 70
Full Step with a Jump 72

The Basic Pa Fang Ken Pu Stepping Patterns 73
Turn Around and Jump 73
The Full Step with a 90 Degree Turn and the Full Step with 76
a 45 Degree Turn
Stepping to Four Directions 77
The "Y" Stepping Pattern 80
The "V" Step 80
Pa Fang Ken Pu Stepping and the Pa Kua Diagram 81

The Pivot Step 83
Pivoting Around the Rear Foot 85
Pivot Stepping and the Pa Kua Diagram 86

Circle Walking 87
Opening the Circle Walk Practice 92
Changing Directions on the Circle 93
Completing the Circle Walk Practice 94
Circle Walking Patterns 97

K'ou Pu and Pai Pu Stepping 99
Combining the Pa Kua Chang Footwork Techniques 105

Reaction Drills
105
Researching Combinations 105

Basic Two-Person Stepping Exercise 107
Freestyle Two-Person Stepping Exercise 108

Pa Kua Chang Footwork - Conclusion 110
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby .Q. on Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:38 pm

johnwang wrote:The "wheeling" step that you can lead your opponent into the emptiness is missing in that chart.

Do you have diagram or video demoing this? Not sure what a "wheeling" step is.
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby johnwang on Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:09 pm

.Q. wrote:
johnwang wrote:The "wheeling" step that you can lead your opponent into the emptiness is missing in that chart.

Do you have diagram or video demoing this? Not sure what a "wheeling" step is.

车轮步 (Che Lun Bu) - wheeling step:

Image
Last edited by johnwang on Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FMA footwork?

Postby .Q. on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:38 pm

Ah, ok. Thanks.
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