1. ... What if, what if, the Chen didn't have anything really put together at the time that Yang family's TJQ was getting popular and they followed the Yang long form and retrofitted it?
3. AND, the interesting thing about the Wu/Hao TJQ style is that it is even more like Shaolin than the Yang and Chen styles.
1. Okay, SO, the YANG CHENG FU long form very closely follows the standard Chen Lao Jia long form.
But should it?
What if, what if, the Chen didn't have anything really put together at the time that Yang family's TJQ was getting popular and they followed the Yang long form and retrofitted it?
3. AND, the interesting thing about the Wu/Hao TJQ style is that it is even more like Shaolin than the Yang and Chen styles. Both the founders of Yang and this Wu style were friends and they both learned Shaolin Hong Quan first. That is a fact. I can see some parts of Hong Quan in the Wu/Hao Style added in that are not in the Chen/Yang (although there is plenty in there already) and besides that, the Wu/Hao TJQ style not only moves with the body mechanics of but also incorporates postures from Shaolin Rou Quan. I can clearly see it.
Also, 95% of the Wu/Hao long form follows the same frame as the Chen/Yang long form, they are all just variations of the same stuff.
wayne hansen wrote:I can't quite see how Wu/Hao is more Shaolin than Chen but the rest seems plausible
Trick wrote:Maybe back at the time when YLC where in the village they understood that in the large frame you find the small and vice versa, in other words at higher levels large and small are the same, what’s inside is the same, don’t bother too much if your stance is wide or narrow
Bao wrote:Trick wrote:Maybe back at the time when YLC where in the village they understood that in the large frame you find the small and vice versa, in other words at higher levels large and small are the same, what’s inside is the same, don’t bother too much if your stance is wide or narrow
The larger frame that YLC created didn't come from the village. He created a larger frame (maybe more a larger medium frame) because he thought that the officials and the courts people who he taught would appreciate large and visually pleasing movements. I.e. they wanted it to look pretty.
YCF changed, standardised the Yang large frame, made it bigger and simplified the body method just because he taught very large groups of people and everyone should be able to see and be able to follow what he did and follow.
Wu Jianquan and Chen Fake followed YCF's example, they taught large groups and made their movements as large as possible.
If something similar to YCF's "large" frame existed before YCF, it was the very low form practice that Yang Shao Hou was known for and this low basin practice was not publicly taught. (YCF achieved such a big belly that could not even bend down to "needle on the bottom of the sea".) History says nothing about if there was any similar practice in the old Chen village.
Bao wrote:This is what I have been pondering about for some time. Everyone says that Chen style is the original Tai chi, but at the same time, even most Chen stylists with some historical knowledge agree that Chen Fake standardised the art and somewhat changed its expression. So when people say that Chen is the original Tai Chi, they don't realise that what they see is not that original Chen, that this refers to something older than they can see publicly being labelled Chen style. Many from older generations, as Ma Yueliang, claimed that Chen family boxing was gone and reconstructed at the time of Yang Chengfu. Maybe not reasonable to believe that they had nothing at all, Chen Fake seems to have been an accomplished martial artist. If not, he wouldn't have been able to establish a name for himself. But maybe the Laojia was constructed or re-constructed to look more similar to what was most popular at that time and regarded as the standard, i.e. the Yang Cheng Fu form. This is reasonable as Yang Tai Chi was regarded as the standard. Something too different would not has been able to sell on the Tai Chi brand.
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