question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:01 am

One of my Wu style teachers he tow tan was 76 when I trained with him
He was the only guy I have met who could touch his fingers to the ground in needle at sea bottom with his back vertiical
He could do 20 pistol squats touching his bottom to the ground then do the same with the other leg
A sa mile never left his face
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Re: question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Postby HotSoup on Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:03 am

Sounds like old He knew a thing or two about proper strength training :)
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Re: question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Postby charles on Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:15 am

Appledog wrote:Hunyuan Qigong #1 "Jiang Qi Xi Zhang" aka sink qi to wash the organs. It's a common move in the internal arts, you will find it and similar-purpose moves in Taichi, Xingyi and Bagua, ex. 0:24 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP5OEjYVzKQ shows the move used to start a Xingyi form.

It can bee seen in the following video starting at 2:33:


The exterior shape of the movement is similar to the Xingyi form movement you posted, but probably the intent is not. It certainly is not the same as the others you posted prior to editing your post, such as the Taiji posture white crane, etc.

A video showing an older version of Feng's exercise is here, shown by Zhang Xuexin, a long-time student of Feng's. It better shows the (original) intent of the exercise. As Feng aged, things changed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQTJAsQ ... 7QdI77iNlB

I don't want to hijack the thread, but did want to comment on that.
Last edited by charles on Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Postby robert on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:07 am

Steve James wrote:Although, I can't specifically recall seeing any pictures of YCF doing the "holding the ball" pose, I'd expect it to look something like this.
Image
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http ... eb.jpg&f=1

Chen Yanlin's Taijiquan manual has a section on stance training and he discusses three postures.
Horse stance

Image

Not too far from holding the ball.


Three line stance
Raise the hands

Image

Play the lute

Image
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Re: question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Postby wiesiek on Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:21 am

oragami_itto wrote:
So among the zz practitioners, how many of you hold one legged postures?
I`m not zz, ;
but
I used to train 9 basic "holdin` the ball" postures in mabu stance.
I started from 9 breaths per posture, /average 20 minutes training/, and stretched it to the classical 36 breaths = 90 minutes workout/.
However, later I found out, that "hangi` on the tree" J.W.`s style is more beneficial .
More bang for the buck in shorter time, I mean.
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Re: question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Postby everything on Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:26 pm

I really have to try it. Not sure if I'll get very far. My brother can do an ok human flag hold.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Postby wiesiek on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:12 am

Yup,
hanging on the tree is very hard to keep, I had BIG problems with starting "hanging" in this position .
When I reach length of 10 breaths /per one side/ , hoho, was very proud :).

ps
one legged position - I still use "golden rooster" as a part of my "yogi morning" wake ups workout,
just ` ~~10 breaths + with leg stretching on the front and back no more than 30 -40 breaths per side, total.

edit:
never was able to do "flag" fully, also some exercises on the bars ,
for work with gymnastic staff fully you need specific /"light"/ body construction .
Last edited by wiesiek on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Postby cloudz on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:02 am

The single leg 'hold the ball' is presented in Kuo Lien Yings TCC Book as The Universal Post.
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: question about holding the ball/hugging the tree/whatever

Postby Appledog on Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:11 am

charles wrote:The exterior shape of the movement is similar to the Xingyi form movement you posted, but probably the intent is not. It certainly is not the same as the others you posted prior to editing your post, such as the Taiji posture white crane, etc.

A video showing an older version of Feng's exercise is here, shown by Zhang Xuexin, a long-time student of Feng's. It better shows the (original) intent of the exercise. As Feng aged, things changed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQTJAsQ ... 7QdI77iNlB

I don't want to hijack the thread, but did want to comment on that.


No that's great thanks for posting that, it all adds to the pot I'm stirring.

Not much else to say I think but I will comment on what I've been looking into recently. I was looking into the origin and evolution of the ancient daoyin practices into modern qigong, and comparing and contrasting everything I knew with the tai chi theories and history, and trying to co-relate things and figure out how this was all put together (I.E. to understand the differences between two versions of the same qi gong and why there was a variation). What interests me is what particular way of instigation and investigation is best and why. Such as, holding the ball in (various positions, which is best or good) versus moving qigong, and what kind of intent, and why, etc. and how it all was discovered and how it all evolved. So far my research has led me to some very interesting conclusions but it is not something I am really sure about. Just something I enjoy looking into and experimenting with sometimes. And this video is great so thanks for posting :)

I do think there is a direct relation between the early daoyin, tree hugging, and basic forms of moving qigong like what is shown in Feng's system. It's figuring out how you get from one to the other (and why) which fascinates me so much about this.
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