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The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:39 am
by Yeung
Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙) had the nickname of Huijie会杰, the grandson Chen Changxing 陈长兴, eighth generation Taijiquan practitioner, 16th generation resident of Chenjiagou

People taught by Chen Yanxi according to Fu Zhensong (1946)

Chen Lianke 陈连科, 17th generation resident of Chanjiagou
Chen Fake 陈发科 (1887-1957), his son
Chen Xin 陈鑫(1849-1929), 16th generation resident of Chenjiagou
Du Yuanhua 杜元化 (1869-1938), one source said that he was the grandstudent of Chen zhongshen 陈仲甡 (sixth generation Taijiquan practitioner)
Yuan Keding袁克定 (1878-1958), the son of Yuan Shikai袁世凯 (1859-1916) who was the fist president of the Republic of China from 1913-1916.
Ji Zhiyi姬致义, a native of Huaiqingfu, Henan Province
Fu Zhensong傅振嵩 (1881-1953), his student from 1897 to 1906

The 83 Form Taijiquan of Chen Fake, performed by his student Tian Xiuchen 田秀臣(1917-1984)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD4T0ORUV1g

The 87 Form Taijiquan of Fu Zhensong, performed by his student Zhai Rongji翟榮基(1931-2005)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkuuKs0tG6k

Why are they so different?

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:43 am
by HotSoup
Because Fu Zhensong also learned from Yang Chengfu, and his form is what is shown on the video?

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:52 am
by charles
Yeung wrote:
The 87 Form Taijiquan of Fu Zhensong, performed by his student Zhai Rongji翟榮基(1931-2005)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkuuKs0tG6k



The description of the video states:

Fu Style Tai Chi was created by Master Fu ZhenSong (1881~1953) . Fu style Tai Chi has 88 Movements. This is based on Yang Style Tai Chi and combine with some Bagua & XingYi Technique . The Performer is Fu ZhenSong disciple -- Sifu Zhai RongJi .


As Hotsoup said, one is Chen style, the other is a combination form of Yang style, bagua and xingyi. It's comparing apples and radiators.

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:07 am
by HotSoup
Also, if you are genuinely interested in some hints to what Chen Yanxi's TJQ might look like, there is a video of his student, Du Yuze:



But to be honest, trying to find connections by comparing the external expressions might be fruitless. People are different and their memory is not the best knowledge repository to allow for doing exactly same things over generations.

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:39 pm
by wayne hansen
I have always thought that Du shows it is modern Chen that changed not yang
I don't get why the Fu guy is shown he is doing Yang 108 not even the Fu form
I learnt fu from someone in the fu wing Fei line she also learnt Chen thru that line
Even though I didn't learn Chen from her it was pretty standard Chen

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:04 am
by greytowhite
http://www.thewushucentre.ca/people-clu ... dahai.html

I'm interested how the Taiji Changquan from Jiang and Yao relate to Chen Yanxi.

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:31 am
by HotSoup
Looks like in no way, according to Andrea herself: "Huan Dahai learned it from Jiang Rongqiao (1891-1974), so I am unclear why it is considered within our Chen style lineage."

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:55 am
by yeniseri
Interesting that 83shitaijiquan is in a high stance as opposed to current Chenjiagoutaijiquan frame. So soemhow Xiaijia (small frame) at that era was the frame of said time until the current 'lower stance' one!
Just an observation... ???

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:17 am
by charles
yeniseri wrote:Interesting that 83shitaijiquan is in a high stance as opposed to current Chenjiagoutaijiquan frame. So soemhow Xiaijia (small frame) at that era was the frame of said time until the current 'lower stance' one!
Just an observation... ???


Chen Taijiquan can, and is, practiced in high, medium and low stances. Which height stance to use depends upon one's age, one's conditioning/strength and on what one wants to train that day. What the public most often sees in demonstrations and competitions is lower stances: it looks more athletic and more "martial". However, that is only one component of training. The same is true of fa jin (boa fa li): demonstrations and competitions often focus on it to look more athletic and martial. It, too, is only one component of training and its performance and frequency also depends on one's age, one's strength and what one wants to train that day.

Recent performances/demonstrations by The Big Four of Chenjiagou, for example, typically are done is higher stances and without a lot of fa jin.

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:26 am
by Trick
charles wrote:
yeniseri wrote:Interesting that 83shitaijiquan is in a high stance as opposed to current Chenjiagoutaijiquan frame. So soemhow Xiaijia (small frame) at that era was the frame of said time until the current 'lower stance' one!
Just an observation... ???


Chen Taijiquan can, and is, practiced in high, medium and low stances. Which height stance to use depends upon one's age, one's conditioning/strength and on what one wants to train that day. What the public most often sees in demonstrations and competitions is lower stances: it looks more athletic and more "martial". However, that is only one component of training. The same is true of fa jin (boa fa li): demonstrations and competitions often focus on it to look more athletic and martial. It, too, is only one component of training and its performance and frequency also depends on one's age, one's strength and what one wants to train that day.

Recent performances/demonstrations by The Big Four of Chenjiagou, for example, typically are done is higher stances and without a lot of fa jin.
Yes I agree mostly, I would add it can also depend on the space area to an degree. I have an long but quite narrow kitchen. In mornings when I prepare the breakfast I sneak in some taiji(or/and Xingyiquan) practice a little here and there. Foot/leg work will adjust a little to the space...as an poor example 8-)

However the arms and legs follow each other. If the arms display expansiveness the legs seem to want to follow suit, and vice versa....but that might just be my own personal experience since I from young age always liked the big moves way when solo practice.
Even if I start out with higher and smaller posture/techniques which the initial thought of keeping it so, it soon goes big anyway. Also with Fali, I may have decided just to go very relaxed and soft in my practice, but when the flow truly comes around tempo changes and fali comes naturally(but not to any extreme).........Just comes with the flow, so I go with it............I’m in my mid 50’s and “still”fairly fit, so the big moves are still for me........However sometimes when waiting for the bus or similar I do go through the form, but with “micro” movements, it may actually look stranger than if where to do it the “regula” way there at the bus stop 8-)

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:41 am
by Trick
The frame of the game.

The small is in the big and the big is in the small, by this one always stand tall.
Active and sensing in every point of ones presence, this is the essence.
Big, medium or small just follow your call.
Whatever the frame the game the same.
For combat or leisure they all give the pleasure.

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:14 am
by robert
There are photos of Chen Fake so we have a pretty good idea of how he taught the form. Some postures are certainly low.

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The form as a whole

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Note that for the most part his torso is upright. Chen Fake was born in Chenjiagou and lived there for over 40 years so this is representative of Chenjiagou taiji ;)

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:39 am
by Trick
Was Chen Fake a tall man, it looks as he was ?

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:05 am
by Bao
Chen Fake was born in Chenjiagou and lived there for over 40 years so this is representative of Chenjiagou taiji


It's well known that he changed things and that he more or less created the modern Large Frame. Later Chen boxing was completely gone from the village. So what is there now is representative of Chen Fake's Tai Chi and not the other way around.

And besides, before the modern styles created solely for the purpose of public teaching, there was no "Chenjiagou Taiji". Chen family boxing was never "Village style" or taught in public in Chen village, only kept as a closed family style.

Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:04 pm
by robert
Bao wrote:
Chen Fake was born in Chenjiagou and lived there for over 40 years so this is representative of Chenjiagou taiji


It's well known that he changed things and that he more or less created the modern Large Frame.

Chen Zhaopi studied with his father and later Chen Fake in Chenjiagou. He went to Beijing and later invited Chen Fake to replace him in Beijing so he could take a better paying postition else where. The form CZP taught is called Laojia in the village. Laojia is very close to Xiaojia, which has nothing to do with Chen Fake. Chen Zhaokui, Chen Fake's 3rd son, went back to the village and taught the modified form. In order to distinguish it from Laojia it is called Xinjia, New frame. The differences in the forms can be seen by comparing them ;)