Re: The Taijiquan of Chen Yanxi 陈延禧 (熙)
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:11 pm
If you think Chinna requires force you haven't been taught it very well
dedicated to the discussion of the chinese internal martial arts of xingyiquan, baguazhang, taijiquan, related arts, and anything else best discussed over a bottle of rum
http://rumsoakedfist.org/
wayne hansen wrote:Just because there is strength training for quinna does not mean we use force in application
Bao wrote:For qinna, you need to understand anatomy, angles and leverage. If you do, there will be no chance for your opponent to resist so there will be no need to use dumb strength and effort.
salcanzonieri wrote:...Here's the thing, these extra movements that Chen Fake lineages do, they are all found in the older Yang TJQ sets. None of these movements are found in any Chen Yanxi and other non Chen Fake versions of the Yi Lu. They are not in the Small Frame lineages that are pre-Chen Fake as well.
So, Chen TJQ versions before Chen Fake do not have certain movements found in Yang TJQ, but Chen Fake versions do.
Yeung wrote:There is no pre Chen Fake Chen style Taijiquan, you have to argue that Fu Zhensong did not learn Taijiquan from Chen Yanxi.
What does that mean?
HotSoup wrote:What does that mean?
That it’s a live tradition and like with any manifestation of human culture, small deviations/innovations here and there are natural to expect with time passing?
Really, running your analysis against a single movement’s place in a form doesn’t permit for a selection significant enough to produce a conclusion different from a statistical mistake. You need a larger selection.
The last video you posted is actually very good for analyzing, since there are tons of people from lineages different from that of CFK. Half of them are not even technically “Chen”, but Zhaobao, nevertheless it’s clear that the forms are of the same origin and it’s possible to distill the common movements and sequence from them to get a better idea how the source forms might look like before the split. Check the video’s description on youtube, there are more details there.
My personal take on it is that the old forms were way simpler. The complexity of nameless extra movements in transition really flourished with CFK and his son, Chen Zhaokui (likely because of the influences of the Beijing martial scene). By all means, Chen Yanxi’s forms must have been way simpler.
salcanzonieri wrote:My, and not just me but others, conjecturing is that Che FaKe may have seen Yang CF style Yang and proceeded accordingly.