Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Bill on Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:01 pm

oragami_itto wrote:What about this one?


He's saying "please kick me in the balls"
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby johnwang on Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:01 pm

edededed wrote:The typical santi stance is just the end shape of piquan.

The end shape of Pi means that the power has been released. If you train standing posture, you should stand in compression stage and not stand in releasing stage. This way your body will be like a cougar that ready to attack any moment.

IMO, a good stance is a stance that you can attack from that position, a compression stage.

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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby edededed on Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:25 pm

Good point! But even with the same shape, one can train compressing or releasing.

Some xingyi also practice other zhuang, like one that looks like the middle stage of piquan. Might be good for practicing compressing, too.
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Fa Xing on Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:29 pm

It's not a fighting stance, it's meant to train the principles of posture that are taught to be maintained in the art.

The boxing guard tends to be the most versatile for dueling types of fighting.
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:07 pm

johnwang wrote:
Bao wrote:JW, why do you assume that someone would keep his hands in that position when he fights?

It's for practice, jibengong. Why does a boxer skip rope if he doesn't use the rope to fight with?

You don't have to separate application from health. There is always a way to map Jibengong into application. You can always kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

By moving your back hand closer to your leading hand.

PRO:

- You can apply switching hands principle.
- Your center line is more protected.
- You can protect your right side door with your right elbow.

CON: You body is not fully stretched.

Image


Raise hands = put up your dukes?

Image

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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby johnwang on Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:37 pm

edededed wrote:The typical santi stance is just the end shape of piquan.

It can also be the beginning of the Tsuan Chuan (or Beng, ...). This way, it's the compressing stage for the Tsuan which make sense. Your back hand is ready to punch out. The farther that you pull your back hand back, the longer punching path that you will have.
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Trick on Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:02 am

johnwang wrote:
edededed wrote:The typical santi stance is just the end shape of piquan.

The end shape of Pi means that the power has been released. If you train standing posture, you should stand in compression stage and not stand in releasing stage. This way your body will be like a cougar that ready to attack any moment.

IMO, a good stance is a stance that you can attack from that position, a compression stage.

Image

Here you kind of answering your own OP
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby marvin8 on Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:10 am

johnwang wrote:Also, the right side door is open for

- left hook punch,
- left high roundhouse kick,
- right high hook kick.

Your thought?

. . . CON: You body is not fully stretched.

When one's "side door is open" and "body is fully stretched," one can get fully stretched (on the canvas).

johnwang wrote:It can also be the beginning of the Tsuan Chuan (or Beng, ...). This way, it's the compressing stage for the Tsuan which make sense. Your back hand is ready to punch out. The farther that you pull your back hand back, the longer punching path that you will have.

. . . "the longer" the opportunity to get punched in the face.

What can happen when you "attack first," "your body is fully stretched" and "the farther that you pull your back hand back:"

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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Bao on Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:21 pm

Trick wrote:
johnwang wrote:The end shape of Pi means that the power has been released. If you train standing posture, you should stand in compression stage and not stand in releasing stage. This way your body will be like a cougar that ready to attack any moment.

IMO, a good stance is a stance that you can attack from that position, a compression stage.

Image

Here you kind of answering your own OP


In our XY, the rear fist pulls back or down as the front fist releases (doesn't need to be a visible back or down. (The body's movement can store even if the hand guards close to the front.) One side stores energy, the other release. The legs should always remain in a "compression stage."
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby johnwang on Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:44 pm

Bao wrote:In our XY, the rear fist pulls back or down as the front fist releases (doesn't need to be a visible back or down. (The body's movement can store even if the hand guards close to the front.) One side stores energy, the other release. The legs should always remain in a "compression stage."

Trick wrote:Here you kind of answering your own OP

Agree! The right arm's releasing can be the compressing for the left back hand strike as well. So the Santi Shi can be the compressing stage. So if one uses Santi to develop "compressing", it will make sense.

edededed wrote:The typical santi stance is just the end shape of piquan.

When I started this thread, I was thinking about fighting stance. I was not thinking about power generation - compressing. Thanks for pointing this out.

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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby everything on Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:54 pm

a cat is predator stalking prey. if you are in 1v1 unarmed mma type situation, that may apply if you are obviously far superior? otherwise if you are matched, then ?

if you are in "regular life" situation, that doesn't seem like you can go around crouched down all the time tip toeing through high grass. it also doesn't seem applicable in various other sport type situations (where I find zhan zhuang is very applicable)
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Bao on Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:29 pm

everything wrote:if you are in "regular life" situation, that doesn't seem like you can go around crouched down all the time tip toeing through high grass.


Tip toeing is the opposite, now we speak about storing energy. The legs are springs, pressed down ready to release. This is what you always practice when you practice drills and forms in the internal arts. When you sink down the strength down the legs, you are always storing energy ready to be released. It's very practical but should be practiced so you don't need to physically sink down very much at all.

it also doesn't seem applicable in various other sport type situations (where I find zhan zhuang is very applicable)


Have no idea what you mean. Just look at the ready position in tennis, badminton if squash, when you wait for the other one to serve. Or look at sprinters, their ready posture before they start to run. The body crouching and releasing is something you can find everywhere in sports.
Last edited by Bao on Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby everything on Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:51 pm

yes very true, just not like that cat. return of tennis serve position is a great application to point out. for this kind of generic athletic stance, kb swing is probably a far better exercise than zhan zhuang or most exercises (other than the specific activity).
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby klonk on Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:14 pm

edededed wrote:The typical santi stance is just the end shape of piquan.


That is as I understand it too. It is the zhan zhuang derived from the intended outcome of the maneuver: such that you snap toward it. It is the after picture, not the before picture.
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Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby johnwang on Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:41 pm

klonk wrote:It is the after picture, not the before picture.

All XY 5 elements can start from Santi Shi. It can be the before picture too.

Before Beng:



Before Pao:



Before Tsuan:

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