Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby klonk on Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:07 pm

If you are trying to kick me in my head, my hand will not be down at my waist, and I will not be standing still. Try to think of it this way. Each zhan zhuang is like a still frame (one photograph) in a motion picture.

If you have done it right, san ti shi is where all six elements are in harmony to hit somebody. I don't believe in mystical chi that surrounds motions that have no clear purpose.
Last edited by klonk on Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
User avatar
klonk
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6635
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby everything on Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:08 pm

basically will repeat myself :) if your san ti shi is something like this
Image

it starts to seem like yeah. good idea.

or


he doesn't really do a stance, I think. but piquan, beng quan, etc. seem clear to me. they aren't optimized for 1v1 unarmed-guaranteed scenarios but darn if they don't seem interesting.

or this ;D which seems to have xingyi 5 elements. plus bonus: taiji push.
Last edited by everything on Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 4662
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Trick on Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:49 am

Santishi as ZZ in it’s forwardness it is not an all awareness forward. The amount of (imaginary) force in front pushing(on knee, palm, forehead) is equally also pushing from the back on the back… Of course there are more push and pulls to play with in this ZZ, practiced to develop an centered focused mind/body and springy lively strength, an all around awareness ………The end shape of Piquan is not an ZZ. In piquan one put the “strength”in motion and learn about timing, and strengt is further developed.
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 1973
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Strange on Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:16 pm

when people feel weak, many consume tonics to boost the bodily function
after some time, the tonics work less and less, and they say the tonics is not good.
many totally forget that the body have a way to strengthen itself, i.e. what we eat.
so they never think to strengthen the function of the spleen, stomach and digestive system
to make the body strong.

i feel that the santishi (with its standing requirements 三圆,三顶 and so on) is a position
to naturally gather nutrient and energy, and improve bodily health and function in a natural way.
so i think the question is not if it is a good fighting stance, but can this be the stance that they say
makes me move and reach my opponent first, even if my opponent is the first to strike.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
User avatar
Strange
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4941
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 1:33 am

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Trick on Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:12 am

Strange wrote: but can this be the stance that they say
makes me move and reach my opponent first, even if my opponent is the first to strike.

That is the “idea” that builds up when the (imaginary)pulls and pushes are worked on
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 1973
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby edededed on Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:48 am

johnwang wrote:
edededed wrote:The typical santi stance is just the end shape of piquan.

When I started this thread, I was thinking about fighting stance. I was not thinking about power generation - compressing. Thanks for pointing this out.



Thank you for the kind words, I am glad if it helped the discussion.

I also agree with you that typical santi can be end but also the beginning.
Last edited by edededed on Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
edededed
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3770
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:21 am

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Drake on Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:03 am

I've sparred using santi as a lark, and to just rest. Confounded the guy I was sparring ;) I've also used the posture depicted above as an invitation :)
Best,

Drake
User avatar
Drake
Great Old One
 
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:47 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby GrahamB on Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:06 am

Anderson Silva fought out of a classical San Ti a lot in this weekends UFC match.

I think it just proves that if you're good enough you can make pretty much anything work.
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 11670
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby johnwang on Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:42 pm

When I was young, I liked to use hook kick as my 1st attack. I always look at my opponent's fighting stance and see whether his head is exposed on his right, and whether his arm can be strong enough to stop my hook kick.

I'm still allergy to "push".
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 8806
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby Squeeeez on Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:38 am

Fighting stance against what?
Inside the TMA (even if not CMA), I think for example that this stance

will be good if the other person wants to stick a knife into your belly.
Last edited by Squeeeez on Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Squeeeez
Santi
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 11:59 pm

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby xingyijesse on Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:45 am

With all respect, what serious, competitive fighter talks about stances or fights from one? None of the arts producing the best fighters right now ever mention it, at least to my knowledge. Never heard Jocko or Tim Kennedy ever talk about their special ops fighting stance. Lol
xingyijesse
Santi
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:43 am

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:56 am

You can't not fight from a stance. Every MMA fighter and boxer and kickboxer has fighting stances. How else are you going to fight?

Army Combatives Technical Evaluation scoresheet: http://www.benning.army.mil/Armor/316th ... 202017.pdf

Note the first item scored in every category is "Student begins in Fighter Stance".
Last edited by oragami_itto on Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
"My own knowledge is shallow and I await corrections from the intelligent."
-Hermit of Jade Well
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby xingyijesse on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:15 am

Are you really equating calling one foot ahead of the other a 'stance' as comparable to what's being talked about here? Really?
xingyijesse
Santi
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:43 am

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:40 am

I'm saying that you have to have a stance to fight.
"My own knowledge is shallow and I await corrections from the intelligent."
-Hermit of Jade Well
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Is Santi Shi a good fighting stance?

Postby xingyijesse on Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:46 am

I kinda think you know exactly what I meant, man. Be honest. That "stance" is nothing like San Ti as it's defined and taught. The "fighting stance" you showed has almost no requirements to start from. Is that similar to how you do San Ti or are they different things? :)
xingyijesse
Santi
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:43 am

PreviousNext

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest