Taiji bag training

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Taiji bag training

Postby johnwang on Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:34 pm

Do you train your Taiji on heavy bag? Please share your experience.
Crow weep in the dark. Tide bellow in the north wind. How lonesome the world.
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby edededed on Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:49 pm

There is a video of Chu Minyi (褚民誼) demonstrating form (looks athletic compared to today's Wu style), but also his various equipment that he devised to train alone.

One of them was a big, heavy ball suspended by ropes - so a bit like a punching bag, but round and able to be used to practice neutralization. Might be a good idea!
(Not really for striking practice.)
User avatar
edededed
Great Old One
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:21 am

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby Bao on Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:49 am

If we speak about relaxed punching, real methods of the internal arts and Tai Chi, then I like bag practice very much. Practicing on a bag or similar is important if you want to learn how to keep relaxing upon impact, through the whole process of the punch. I like deep penetrating, heavy, blows with whole body coordinated movement. But as the Mrs doesn’t allow me to have a bag at home :'( ... I usually practice punches against a kicking protection.

You really need some sturdy surface to practice this kind of striking on. If you believe that you are going to be able to deliver a good relaxed punch without testing your balance and alignment against some kind of surface, you will be fooling yourself. It's very hard to understand how your body alignment and balance will become affected upon impact if you don't actually practice while receiving that impact and the returning force that comes with it. If you want to learn how to relax through the target, alignment becomes a big issue.

There are many different methods to try, experiment with, coordinate together, and to have fun with. You can punch with "closing", or on "open", by utilising "falling" or "raising". You can practice to strike on exhale or inhale. If inhale, you punch using "open" principle, the whole torso of the body expands from the ribs. As you don't tense your breath, there's no harm or negative impact on the lungs.

It’s also important to practice both whole body movement from the beginning with“body pushes” the fist, and also "fist leading" and body follow up. Here, the punch looks disconnected, like moving by itself, but after the fist has travelled a bit, the body arranges itself so that upon impact, the whole body is coordinated and has the best angle and alignment to support the fist.

You can try to lead the fist with the foot, kua, by turning the waist or centreline. You can also try different things like punching while keeping the center completely straight, moving in while keeping your center straight, or try to coordinate raising or falling movements together with horizontal movements of the body and waist.

Every different way to coordinate the body will affect your alignment upon impact in different ways, which means that you need to adjust the stance/posture and distance in different ways to have the best structure ad support as possible when the fist meets the bag/surface.

From my own experience, being able to really relax on impact, and all the way into the target, is a skill that takes a whole lot of time to develop. But this is what you need to learn if you want to be able to express real "jin" through the punches. More than twenty years ago, when I first started to really practice relaxed, genuine "IMA" and Tai Chi punching, in a methodologically structured manner, there were always different places in the body that I tended to tense up. It can be breath/chest, Neck/jaws, shoulders. At first, the whole punching process felt a bit weird, sometimes unnatural. But the more instructions I received and the more my teacher enlightened me on every little detail I did wrong, the more logical the whole process of relaxed striking became. It took many years to get rid of the impulse to "want to feel strength" and to get rid of the tensions that occurred through the punching process.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9007
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby BruceP on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:24 pm

TJQ can be practiced as an external fighting method, and bagwork-proper can serve as a useful method of developing good hitting mechanics, but 'that's just good jujutsu'.

TJQ practiced as IMA is based on the energetics of intent. To that end, generic types of bagwork are pretty much useless.
BruceP
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 3:40 pm

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby marvin8 on Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:16 pm

BruceP wrote:TJQ can be practiced as an external fighting method, and bagwork-proper can serve as a useful method of developing good hitting mechanics, but 'that's just good jujutsu'.

TJQ practiced as IMA is based on the energetics of intent. To that end, generic types of bagwork are pretty much useless.

Apparently, not to Wang Zhanjun:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNxoyyjXmO8
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby BruceP on Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:38 pm

I wrote my sig line while reading some of your exchanges with Bhassler
BruceP
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 3:40 pm

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby marvin8 on Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:47 pm

BruceP wrote:I wrote my sig line while reading some of your exchanges with Bhassler

I don't remember my exchanges with Bhassler, as it is not personal. Regardless, it does not change Wang Zhanjun's views on Taiji bag training.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 2917
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:30 pm

The bag has always been a big part of our school in Penang
We mainly have a 4 part hitting drill
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 5660
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby BruceP on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:54 pm

Have done lots of tai chi training with heavy bag to purposely eliminate intent from the exercises.
BruceP
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 3:40 pm

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby vadaga on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:07 am

On the heavy bag, I usually use two minute rounds, mainly I would either practice combinations of an entering technique and then a close technique. either that or isolate one single movement and practice it repeatedly.
善人和气一团
User avatar
vadaga
Wuji
 
Posts: 1139
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:53 am
Location: 地球

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby johnwang on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:12 am

Bag is like my wife. I prefer to play with my wife than just to play with myself. When I strike into the thin air, I always have that "empty and lonely" feeling.

Am I the only person in RSF who feels this way?
Crow weep in the dark. Tide bellow in the north wind. How lonesome the world.
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby Trick on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:33 pm

i read somewhere that banks can make money out of thin air
Trick

 

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby Subitai on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:32 pm

johnwang wrote:Do you train your Taiji on heavy bag? Please share your experience.


johnwang wrote:Do you train your Taiji on heavy bag? Please share your experience.


Shortest answer YES

Longer answer is; Moreso when I was younger... Now i'll use standard type heavy bags only occasionally to maintain what I have.

At my house I have something a bit different. I use a 20' x 8' rolled up wrestling mat for strike training.

I don't have a image hosting site but if you have facebook it's here:

https://www.facebook.com/14509973220134 ... 8422064681
User avatar
Subitai
Huajing
 
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:25 pm
Location: Southeastern, CT USA

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:32 am

Those of you who train the heavy bag does your training come from tai chi or is it boxing training
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 5660
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Taiji bag training

Postby Trick on Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:04 am

Seem that all you taiji guys “Taiji”heavybag practice is all about striking head on withfist and feet. I’d say that “Taiji” heavybag practice should be to keep constant contact with the bag, have it lean on you and let it “roll” around you instead of keeping distance and circling around the bag....Or have it swing at you to make tight evasive actions against it.
Trick

 

Next

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests