New Taiji teaching method

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New Taiji teaching method

Postby johnwang on Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:28 pm

My friend wants to start a "Taiji for health" program in the park. I suggest him to use a different teaching method. If his Taiji form has 48 different moves, he can

- teach the 1st move.
- ask his students to repeat left and right 20 times.
- ...
- teach the 48th move.
- ask his students to repeat left and right 20 times.

One day he teaches his student how to link those 48 moves, his students will have learned the whole form. The advantage of this approach is his students will have nice balance on both left side training and right side training.

What's your opinion on this approach?
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby origami_itto on Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:22 pm

That's the way I learned the five elements of Xingyiquan. That's not how I learned the 12 animals.

I don't think it's the best way to approach taijiquan. If the goal is to learn a form then the sequence should be learned as they go. That breaks down the individual transitions that can be learned as they are needed and then the form as known thus far becomes a pneumonic aid that can be repeated and thereby keep the individual movements fresh. If you just teach them 48 isolated movements to practice independently of each other without a unifying context, I believe the task of learning would be more difficult. Then, after they master them all independently, the new task of remembering a completely new piece of information, the sequence?

I just think teaching the form as you go helps the student. But yes, each individual movement needs to be taught in a drillable fashion and understood in isolation as well as relation to movement, in my opinion.
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby Appledog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:13 pm

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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby everything on Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:28 pm

Everyone interested in any MA would do well to start with any kind of wrestling.

But he said this is taiji for health.
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby Appledog on Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:24 pm

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby Trick on Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:19 am

the friend should teach the 24 form, in there all the ideas are clearly and easyly taught, learned and practiced equally on both sides
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby windwalker on Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:02 am

johnwang wrote:
What's your opinion on this approach?


Its hard to say, the title is "new taiji teaching method" what is outlined seems very much in line with what most do in teaching taiji with the primary goal of learning the movements ie the from. 24, 48, 88 ect.

The emphasis as stated is "taiji for health"
One might ask what are the expectations of learning or doing it for " health"
what kind of health, what are the improvements or benefits of doing taiji over say yoga, or pilates.

as an example

"yoga:

a Hindu spiritual and ascetic discipline, a part of which, including breath control, simple meditation, and the adoption of specific bodily postures, is widely practiced for health and relaxation."

"Pilates:
It also has a strong mind/body connection, so you may like it if you enjoy yoga but need a more intense core workout. Pilates is great for strengthening and toning with a focus your core and for increasing your flexibility. Since it is not designed to be an aerobic activity, don't forget your cardio!"

Why would someone chose taiji over something else looking for "health"
what makes it different, what are the expectations.

Recently relocated back to the US...
Once I settle a little, thinking of working with a local VA
offering taiji to vets as needed primarily as a way to help those rehabilitate
their mind / body from injuries or age.

The focus will be on primary aspects that many in the gen public
seek when looking for taiji.

calming the mind , finding balance in movement
centering the body, opening the joints
expanding the range of movement for the aged,
workarounds for those with injured bodies or missing limbs.

The end goal to help them find their own "taiji" method
based on the 24 step, in accordance with their present mind/body state.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby Bao on Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:55 am

Agreed that it’s not a new method and that the end goal is that people should find their own Tai Chi.

If you look at older booos and read interviews with older “masters” you’ll see that there’s a rather common opinion that in earlier days Tai Chi (or maybe “pre-Tai Chi” before the great ego war.) had no fixed forms and practice were based on postures and drills that you could put together into shorter or longer sequences. I think this is a better approach for a teacher. If you start with one or a few movements and drills, It’s easier to make sure that the student understand the correct and detailed body method in one and each before learning another one. Nowadays, a long sequence of movement is taught and the body method becomes something secondary or even more or less absent.
Last edited by Bao on Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby everything on Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:49 am

Appledog wrote:
everything wrote:Everyone interested in any MA would do well to start with any kind of wrestling.

But he said this is taiji for health.


It would be too easy to point out that "everyone agrees" that the method and practice of Tai Chi for health is the same as that of Tai Chi for martial arts; otherwise it wouldn't be Tai Chi and/or it wouldn't work. That's why I clarified that any new method had to explain why it was a form of Tai Chi and not merely of some other art (including generic qigong). I wanted to emphasize this because I think when people bring up "Tai Chi for Health" what they are really doing is not Tai Chi but just generic qigong (which may or may not even be "real qigong"). So it's Tai Chi for health then, how is it any different from Eight pieces of Brocade (which is often used as a Tai Chi warmup exercise)?

Essentially, if Taijiquan is a net amalgamation of daoyin and tuina exercises along with the 13 postures and some monastic or folk art like red fist or tongbeiquan, then isn't "tai chi for health" just a misnomer for generic daoyin, meditation, yoga or heck just jogging around the park? Why drag the "martial art" into it if you're not going to teach it? And then call it a martial art, given that's the one thing you're planning on NOT teaching people?

(Edit: In my original message I commended that I thought we as a culture knew what "Taiji for health" means. Upon some reflection I actually think we don't, and it's going to be even more important in the future to delineate these things. As it turns out when I survey 'Tai Chi for Health' I find that there is no actual Tai Chi being taught there, and I don't think this is a good thing). So when johnwang said "I suggest him to use a different teaching method." I read this as "Don't say it's Tai Chi when it's not, just use some other Qigong method like Eight peices of brocade". Unless we're thinking, he'd get more students and make more money, if he just calls it tai chi and hopes nobody notices.


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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby everything on Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:49 am

How about offering this class in a really, really hot room?
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby Steve James on Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:26 am

Teach the student, not the subject. What and how depends on what the student needs.
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby johnwang on Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:06 pm

Bao wrote:If you start with one or a few movements and drills, It’s easier to make sure that the student understand the correct and detailed body method in one and each before learning another one.

I'm glad that at least you understand what I'm trying to say. One doesn't have to learn the whole Taiji form to get the health benefit. If an 80 years old man just drills Peng, Lu, Ji, An combo 1,000 times, he will get the health benefit out of it.
Last edited by johnwang on Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby windwalker on Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:22 pm

johnwang wrote:
Bao wrote:If you start with one or a few movements and drills, It’s easier to make sure that the student understand the correct and detailed body method in one and each before learning another one.

I'm glad that at least you understand what I'm trying to say. One doesn't have to learn the whole Taiji form to get the health benefit. If an 80 years old man just drills Peng, Lu, Ji, An combo 1,000 times, he will get the health benefit out of it.


Can you define what your meaning of health benefit is that aligns specifically or
uniquely to taiji ?
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby johnwang on Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:49 pm

windwalker wrote:Can you define what your meaning of health benefit is that aligns specifically or
uniquely to taiji ?

- No combat value.
- Help old people to live longer.

Few years ago, Austin city council passed a law that MA teaching in the park was not allowed. My young long fist brother (also a Chen Taiji teacher) talked to the Austin city council to open the park for free Taiji class for health. It seems like a good idea. Since the class will be free, people may come and go. It will be very difficult to expect people to stay long enough for the whole Taiji form. IMO, if a student just learn "brush knee". He may just drill it at home for the rest of his life and get the health benefit out of it.
Last edited by johnwang on Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Taiji teaching method

Postby everything on Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:12 pm

johnwang wrote:
Few years ago, Austin city council passed a law that MA teaching in the park was not allowed. .


Sounds like there is an interesting back story.
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