New Taiji teaching method

[Steve James]

If the student actually improves, then he or she might want to do more --if only to keep up interest. The motivation to exercise is not automatic, and learning new things can keep someone interested. Basic standing and stationary exercises are fine, but they're not tcc. Imo, if the point is to use tcc, then the object is to learn tcc. I think looking at the art as simply the mastery of a few movements defeats the point of learning the art. Otoh, that's not to say that the goal is to learn everything. But, doing a complete form (long or short) is rewarding. It gives students something to look forward to.

I tend to think that the movements of the Yang long form, although following the basic principles, get more complex as the form progresses. So, they are even better exercises of mobility and balance than the first few movements. It's not necessary to be able to do the most complex movements in order to do tcc, but they are worth aspiring to. Hey, I am in awe of the Zhaobao people.

[robert]

A long form has its own advantages for sure. It can help your body to relax on a deeper level amongst other things.

I don't buy it. I was taught Chen style starting with standing and after standing for a few years I was taught seven or eight silk reeling exercises. It was not uncommon for me to do silk reeling continuously for an hour. These were beginner exercises so they were large circles and relatively easy. I think it was easier to relax on a deeper level and focus on the core principle and body requirements than doing a long form.

But should students really start off their practice with learning a long form?

I don't think so. I like the way I was taught Chen taiji: standing, then silk reeling, forms/applications, and then push hands (so far). From what I've seen Dai family xinyi is similar. From my experience when I learned a long form there were places where you're standing on one leg manipulating jin or doing small circles, areas that were more difficult than drawing a simple circle, and that kept me from getting deeper in the form. Now that I can get through laojia yilu without problems I can get fairly deep and relaxed, but that took me a long time. Maybe that's just me

[charles]

If the student actually improves, then he or she might want to do more --if only to keep up interest.

Some students, sure. But, one has to start somewhere. One can always add to curriculum as students stay around and want more.

Basic standing and stationary exercises are fine, but they're not tcc.

For many of the teachers I've studied with, they are THE core neigong that forms the basis for Taijiquan. YMMV.

Imo, if the point is to use tcc, then the object is to learn tcc.

Sure. What is Taijiquan? People will disagree, but most agree there is some basis on neigong. Without that, it's choreography, not Taijiquan.

I think looking at the art as simply the mastery of a few movements defeats the point of learning the art.

In my experience, most practitioners have learned a large curriculum of stuff - empty hand forms, push hands, long weapons, short weapons, qigong... - but mastered none of it. Most have learned long forms and have little in the way of basic foundational skills. Without mastering the basics one masters none of it. One way of mastering the basics - possibly the most direct way - is to identify and master those basics in simple, isolated movements that, once mastered, form the basis of everything that one does, all of the movements.

But, doing a complete form (long or short) is rewarding. It gives students something to look forward to.

Sure. Depends upon what the individual student wants from his or her practice.

I tend to think that the movements of the Yang long form, although following the basic principles, get more complex as the form progresses.

Aside from the fact that many early moves are repeated later in the form, I disagree. Every movement in the form is complex. If it isn't, it isn't being done right or is being done "superficially".

[Steve James]

In my experience, most practitioners have learned a large curriculum of stuff - empty hand forms, push hands, long weapons, short weapons, qigong... - but mastered none of it.

In my experience, few have ""mastered" anything, and those that have consider themselves students who are still learning. I don't believe that mastery is ever a goal. Besides, I disregard the opinions of tcc practitioners toward other tcc practitioners.

Afa basic exercises, they are important in all martial arts. They're the gongfu. There's nothing special about tcc in that respect, and people do basic exercises and learn forms simultaneously.

Well, sure, there are people who know 10 different weapons forms, 13 push hands techniques, short forms, long forms, competition forms, etc.. No, I guess one could say that they haven't mastered all of them. However, imo, I don't believe that someone who's only practiced standing for a year has more ability at anything except standing. Ymmv.

Aside from the fact that many early moves are repeated later in the form, I disagree. Every movement in the form is complex. If it isn't, it isn't being done right or is being done "superficially".

I don't know what you mean by "complete." I'm only referring to what the body is required to do in terms of movement and balance. Doing a kick is more demanding than standing on both legs. The sweep lotus kick is more demanding that single whip. It requires more balance. It's not a question of completeness or perfection (as in symmetry).

[Kelley Graham]

In general, imo, the yang long form variants of tai chi chuan are designed specifically for sedentary office workers. as such, the balance of postures are biased to the left, as most people are right side dominant. without heavy labor this left-right imbalance becomes an issue as one ages. if you start with the sides balanced, as in more advanced martial training, students struggle unnecessarily. As for the original post, teaching postures individually, then showing the connections, i like very much. Although I do teach 3 reps on non-dominant side to 2 reps on the dominant.

[wayne hansen]

Yang style

Standing
Shifting weight
Chi gung
Walking no hands
Walking hands
Solo form
Static pushing,structural
One step pushing
Walking 4 hands
Ta lu
San shou solo forms A&B
San shou two man

Pole doing all the above steps
Spear doing all the above steps
Knife doing all the above steps
Sword doing all the above steps

San da (application)
Zhang zhung
Noi gung
Fast combat form(in our school)

No step is superfluous ,all need to be mastered before moving on to the next step

This is how it is in our school others may not find it essential
All these stages were invented for a reason
Some add in other arts and exercises ,that is fine but call it something else not tai chi

[Steve James]

Once you've mastered tcc, what next?

[everything]

Figure out how to stop Royce

[Trick]

Yang style

Standing
Shifting weight
Chi gung
Walking no hands
Walking hands
Solo form
Static pushing,structural
One step pushing
Walking 4 hands
Ta lu
San shou solo forms A&B
San shou two man

Pole doing all the above steps
Spear doing all the above steps
Knife doing all the above steps
Sword doing all the above steps

San da (application)
Zhang zhung
Noi gung
Fast combat form(in our school)

No step is superfluous ,all need to be mastered before moving on to the next step

This is how it is in our school others may not find it essential
All these stages were invented for a reason
Some add in other arts and exercises ,that is fine but call it something else not tai chi

is that list a must for "health taiji in the park for "eldery" students" ?

[wayne hansen]

No they can just go for a brisk walk and do some gentle stretching

[Trick]

ok, i take that your suggestion for an " New Taiji teaching method" . noted the headline for the thread just say "taiji" , dropping the "quan" , so you might be correct about your new taiji teaching method

[windwalker]

Can you define what your meaning of health benefit is that aligns specifically or
uniquely to taiji ?

- No combat value.
- Help old people to live longer.

If he was not your friend, and you saw this person teaching taiji in the park would you then comment aabot those who have changed the focus of taiji making it non-functional?


Seems a common theme here starting out with the claim that some percentage of taiji teachers don't understand what they're doing, bringing the art down.

Usually it seems to always be about 90% don't know what they're doing. Of course those commenting on this always seem to be within the 10% that do

[johnwang]

If he was not your friend, and you saw this person teaching taiji in the park would you then comment aabot those who have changed the focus of taiji making it non-functional?

I like to train combo that involve with "leg skill (sweep, cut, spring, hook, lift, twist, ...)". The foot sweep is the 1st combo drill that I train daily. I have about 20 of these kind drills that I repeat each 20 times everyday. I can get more health benefit from these kind of drill training than from my Taiji form training.

If I teach Taiji, I will emphasize on drills that require "single leg balance".

[johnwang]

Here are some Taiji drills that we do in Chang Taiji.



Here is the application of the 1st drill (in the above clip) "楼臂棚 (Lou Bei Peng) - arms raising".

[windwalker]

- No combat value.
- Help old people to live longer.
.

what you've shown apparently has combat value.
the movements are not unique to taiji

My commonet was just reflective of the many, even yourself always looking at things
through a combative lens judging the merits of others practices based on it .

Thought is was kind of odd in a way....

just an observation

hope your friends practice helps people and they enjoy it.