Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby yeniseri on Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:48 am

Within the past 3 months, there have been attempts to control or monetarize qigong along with other bodywork traditions to rope in those healing modalities that people are seeking to escape the stranglehold of allopathic medicine. Again, the first step is to always seek out the medical practitioner but people are realizing the more conscious amongst us pay out of pocket to non-drug interventions as part of a holistic tradition.
Some of allopathic practitioners believe that they should get that money, rightly or wrongly. SO the step is to limt how WE spend out money. THey have sought to use State Regulatory Authorities to rein in those who do qigong (amongst others) knowing the end result is to scare off the "rabble".

Just to be clear, the TARGETED language is there for a reason so please read and see where

Bernard Shannon is a positive influence so I am just a concerned individual passing this on as an awareness tool.

https://www.change.org/p/mark-c-montign ... igned=true
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby charles on Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:29 pm

Do I understand this correctly that it applies to those who are charging money (I.e professionals) for “bodywork”? It does not prevent individuals from practicing whatever they want, just to who may teach/dispense it for a fee?

Is there not some need to balance the rights of anyone who wants to charge money for something they want to offer/teach the public and protection of the public from fraud, quackery and harmful practices?

Do you teach/perform “bodywork” for a fee and have a vested interest in the outcome?
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby cgtomash on Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:36 pm

The new bill is aimed at clinical practictioners.

From the bill:

"3. "Clinical qigong therapy" means a business or person engaged
in the use of specific skills, knowledge and training in qigong for
the health and benefit of an individual patient, or group of
patients for compensation or valuable consideration. General
recreational qigong exercises for self-health or non-specific
medical purposes are not included in this definition;"

You can view the whole bill here:

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pd ... %20int.pdf
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby yeniseri on Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:23 am

charles wrote:Do I understand this correctly that it applies to those who are charging money (I.e professionals) for “bodywork”? It does not prevent individuals from practicing whatever they want, just to who may teach/dispense it for a fee?


You are right. Those charging money for bodywork are the targets BUT the suggestion that qigong is a sure 'cure' from even a non-bodywork individual has the potential to open someone up for practicing without a license and the potential for a FINE is greatly increased.

Is there not some need to balance the rights of anyone who wants to charge money for something they want to offer/teach the public and protection of the public from fraud, quackery and harmful practices?
Fraud is the issue but if you apply the same to allopathic medicine, it can be seen that one WILL get away with providing service and then dying 3 months later from allopathic medicine. It is OK for the latter but disastrous for the former! I realize I am over-exaggerating the issue.

Per the current and potential lagalities, personal practice is not included per the guidelines and definitions.

Do you teach/perform “bodywork” for a fee and have a vested interest in the outcome?

Regardless of who does the cure, all choice is that. People feel better because of, and in spite of what they choose so all is included.
Last edited by yeniseri on Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby edededed on Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:10 pm

Qigong therapies can range from teaching self-help exercises, to emitting energies for healing, to summoning an entity for help.
Reiki seems to be a blend of the latter two.

In Western terms, these are similar to teaching callisthenics or yoga, laying on hands, and calling upon God for healing.

Since the latter two in this case are religious, would these new laws infringe on religious rights?
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby meeks on Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:08 pm

I'd like to point out that qi gong is often the term for even the most basic of meditation exercises. So are they saying "stop charging money for meditation classes!" also...?
Last edited by meeks on Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby Trick on Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:07 pm

just call it meditation instead of Qigong
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby Rhen on Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:48 pm

Actually I am against energy work from people who have have not:

1. gone to an accredited massage school or
2. gone to an accredited TCM school or
3. gone to medical school.

I do not trust people without the proper training on anatomy and physiology at that level. There are now people in the field of Tai Chi who think they can learn some "bonesetting" in a few weeks, then go off and start working on people.

this is a big insult to people like my teacher who spent years in Taiwan learning herbs and bonesetting, and one of the first foreigners to graduate from a college there.

with that said, I'm putting these guys on blast. I talked to this guy Adam and he said he learned bonesetting, then he changed his website to say bonesetting qigong, now it says tui-na qigong. I think they are fraudulent and lack the education. I asked him on his medical training and all i got was grasshopper chirps. Stay away from these guys:

https://www.hmehealing.com/
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby edededed on Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:05 pm

It's tough - on the other hand, any medical doctor in the US can go and learn acupuncture for a week or so, and then legally practice.

The traditional, apprentice-style in Asia was very hit and miss - you had some greats, and you had some poor practitioners. Today, with the modern school-style, it seems that you have less poor practitioners, but also less greats (maybe because the curriculum and timing is standardized, instead of individual).

"Accredited" is only as good as the people who think of how to do it.

This attempt to legally control qigong now could be good, but that can only happen if the guys thinking of the laws are very understanding of qigong (both breadth and depth). Of course, this is not very likely.
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby Interloper on Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:17 pm

In Massachusetts, there's a bill being presented that would severely control and oversee ALL modes of bodywork, from Reiki and accupressure, to qigong and neigong. The reason for the bill is to put an end to unregulated body therapies/practices that could be serving as a front for sex trafficking and prostitution. Massage parlors already are regulated by the state under a separate bill.
The bill would call for the creation of a supervisory board, inspection system, fees, etc.

The main issue with this bill, is it's currently too broad, and it will be too difficult to determine who is or is not a legitimate qigong (or other such thing) teacher using Western standards of evaluation (e.g. college or trade school degrees and certifications and the like). Explaining that your teacher in China taught you his ancestral art and craft that is generations old, may not be considered adequate by a system that requires official transcripts and diplomas granted by a school accredited by an American educational system.

Last year, the bill was prevented from going to a senate vote, by a single state representative who is himself a tai chi chuan and qigong teacher and healer, highly respected. He showed up at every weekly session to be the lone dissenting vote that kept the bill from going to the senate floor for final approval. So, the bill died at the end of 2018 and is in the process of being re-drafted for another round. We'll see if it is more reasonably worded this time.
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby edededed on Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:31 pm

That's the problem!

These laws are decided by groups of people who know nothing about the subjects. We are lucky if we have 1 person that does know something. But that gives us a group of, say, 99 people who are at best apathetic. probably easily-swayed by friends, and at worst prejudiced. Then we have 1 person who knows better.

The reason for that bill is silly - prostitution and sex trafficking should be prevented more directly. Seems somewhat bizarre to link reiki, acupressure, qigong, neigong to those things. (Although tantric sexual qigong is a thing, it is so rare that I doubt anyone not from this board ;D knows about it?)
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby Interloper on Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:37 am

Ed, the reasoning for the bill is that any profession that involves and requires physical touching, is suspect. Under the guise of providing therapy, teaching or practice with physical contact, these arts can presumably be used as a pretext for sexual services. In the desire to shut down sex trafficking and forced prostitution, the state is using a buckshot approach.
I agree with you that these legislations almost always go badly, with most (if not all) of the people making the laws being totally ignorant of and apathetic toward the bona fide disciplines and practitioners. The state representative I mentioned has been working hard to educate his colleagues, even planning a demo and classes for them. We'll see if it does any good.
Last edited by Interloper on Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby Giles on Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:30 am

Reading this with interest. Maybe the situation in Germany is of interest, as one example of how things are regulated...

In Germany anyone can offer ‘bodywork’, massage, Alexander Method, Feldenkrais Method, craniosacral bodywork and so on or also Asian methods such as yoga, qigong, reiki and so on (also ‘tai chi for health’) if they clearly state that this is for things like wellness, relaxation, well-being or also in support of general health, fitness etc. Here the market is basically unregulated. What you however cannot do is apply any descriptions or make any claims for such services that mention terms such as ‘therapy’, ‘therapeutic’, ‘healing’, ‘curative’, ‘treatment’ of any kind of maladies or complaints, ‘pain relief’, ‘mitigation’ etc. etc. In order to do this you have be either a doctor or accredited psychotherapist (for mental disorders) or a Heilpraktiker.

A Heilpraktiker translates as ‘alternative practitioner’ or ‘natural health professional’ and to get this qualification you have to pass state-administered examinations (written and oral) in conventional medicine, covering the basics of conventional anatomy, physiology, pathology and diagnostics. This examination is far less detailed than the examinations taken by a medical doctor during his/her training, but it’s still fairly challenging for the normal citizen. The idea is to ensure (in theory as least) that if people are going to apply some kind of alternative method to treat people who come to them with a medical complaint, then – irrespective of how skilled they are in the actually technique(s) they are treating with – at least they are not total idiots in terms of conventional medicine. In other words, that before setting the needles, massaging the meridians, prescribing the homeopathic globuli, tuning into the craniosacral mid-tide or whatever, they are capable of recognizing that the client/patient may, for instance, be in a critical stage of coronary disease, or has possible symptoms of TB or cancer, or seems to be in the grip of paranoid schizophrenia, etc. And thus takes appropriate action and sends them off the hospital, or refers them to a specialist, or whatever, instead of winging it with his own alternative method. Also meaning that in some cases the responsible practitioner will refrain from treatment at all, and simply send the patient to the appropriate parties. In essence, that an alternative practitioner doesn’t pose a potential danger to public health. In this sense the Heilpraktiker is a ‘negative qualification’. The Heilpraktiker is also subject to a range of related obligations and prohibitions. So this is how alternative treatment methods are currently regulated in Germany.
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby edededed on Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:00 am

Hi Interloper - thanks for the explanation. Seems strange, though, since qigong and reiki most typically do not touch at all. Many sexual abuse cases on the news seem to come from religion maybe the buckshot should be increased and widened? The sexual abuse line seems like an excuse to me. (Especially as qigong healing practitioners tend to be middle-aged or older men.)

Giles - German laws sound somewhat similar to those in Japan. But in Japan, I know a few acupuncturists who learned acupuncture in China, but then came back and had to do it all over again to get licensed to practice in Japan. If you do bonesetting, I think you need to do the same (and they also force you to learn judo). Qigong treatments are like as you said, you can have them, but not make claims about it. The same, strangely, is for Chinese massage and "aesthetic" massage practitioners in Japan - they can do as they please, as long as they don't say that their service is "massage."

Incidentally the sex industry is as always strong in Japan, but since it has a pseudo-legal status, the alternative medicine industry does not get damaged from them!
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Re: Stop the Assault on Qigong/Bodywork/Reiki

Postby GrahamB on Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:18 am

Yeah, let's regulate those dangerous energy workers, but guns? No problem!

Maybe if we emphasised how much damage to the chakra and energy system a bullet can do to a school child they'd pay more attention?


At the beginning of 2018, Education Week, a journal covering education in the US, began to track school shootings -

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