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Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:34 pm
by johnwang
When you move in and make your 1st attack, if you land your foot according to your opponent's

- leading foot position, if your opponent steps back, in order to make your 2nd attack, you may have to make one more step. Most of the time, this extra step will slow you down and your opponent will have enough time to counter your 2nd attack.
- back leg position, even if your opponent steps back, you can still make your 2nd attack without having to make another step.

In your training, have you ever considered this situation?

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:02 pm
by Taste of Death
No point in standing on the welcome mat. Enter through the door whether invited or not.

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:10 am
by Trick
"Once more into the fray. Into the last good fight I'll ever know. Live and die on this day. Live and die on this day." - (from the excellent movie "The Grey")

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:36 pm
by johnwang
Here is an example. When he steps in his left foot, he has plan to use his right leg to control his opponent's back leg.

Image

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:45 pm
by Taste of Death
He should have followed the punch. He would have arrived sooner.

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:35 pm
by oragami_itto
Taste of Death wrote:He should have followed the punch. He would have arrived sooner.


Then they would have reacted to the threat differently. The Dodge of the punch turns his head so he doesn't see the advancing leg.

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:41 pm
by Taste of Death
oragami_itto wrote:
Taste of Death wrote:He should have followed the punch. He would have arrived sooner.


Then they would have reacted to the threat differently. The Dodge of the punch turns his head so he doesn't see the advancing leg.


It would have been over after the first move instead of taking three moves.

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:46 pm
by oragami_itto
Taste of Death wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:
Taste of Death wrote:He should have followed the punch. He would have arrived sooner.


Then they would have reacted to the threat differently. The Dodge of the punch turns his head so he doesn't see the advancing leg.


It would have been over after the first move instead of taking three moves.

Maybe, maybe not, the point remains you are describing a completely different Gambit.

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:12 pm
by Taste of Death
oragami_itto wrote:Maybe, maybe not, the point remains you are describing a completely different Gambit.


John and I only care about what works. 1 is better than 1-2 which is better than 1-2-3.

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:37 pm
by oragami_itto
Taste of Death wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Maybe, maybe not, the point remains you are describing a completely different Gambit.


John and I only care about what works. 1 is better than 1-2 which is better than 1-2-3.


Sure, 1 is better than 3, but a duck is a duck and a chicken is a chicken, and just running them over in one movement doesn't really fit the topic of discussion "plan one step ahead". The gif is illustrating a particular point of using the opponent's reaction as a setup for a subsequent technique, which one generally does because the more direct approach has failed to achieve the goal.

In this case, the rear leg coming forward is a big, slow movement, and would potentially signal the opponent to create distance if you started moving it while they were looking at it. When you pull the attention away with the punch, that turns the leg into a sneak attack from the rear.

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:52 pm
by johnwang
If we compare the following 3 clips, they all have controlled on their opponent's back leg.

Image





When he did Taiji "diagonal fly", he didn't control on his opponent's back leg. Is this correct, not correct, or just different?


Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:18 pm
by Subitai
John, i just wanted to comment about the diag. Flying vid above. 1st against newbies will it could work perfectly like that.
But Typically as soon as you up the skill level...the person defending will: 1) match the attackers footwork and step back to adjust as much as he steals forwards. 2) the defender will block/grab the diag arm before it ever reaches his chest.

Thus the effect will be to stabilize and become neutral. In my school...i teach this as "My dear old friend" and believe it or not, (this neutral position) happens allot in standing sparring.

How we enter next...something i work on allot.

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:22 pm
by everything
It depends right. Machida liked to use these kinds of cross the body takedowns. Sometimes he got a leg or the other. Sometimes not. But I think he often did plan it one step ahead, but more as an "attack by drawing" rather than "progressive indirect attack" to borrow from Bruce Lee terms. Other times, it's kind of just there. In the second part of this gif, he doesn't really do the throw as cleanly as in the first, looks more like "press", but it works out, and he does catch a leg. First throw, it seems more that he "bumps" the hip of his opponent and makes the guy's hip go over his bump.

Image

Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:27 pm
by johnwang
Subitai wrote:John, i just wanted to comment about the diag. Flying vid above. 1st against newbies will it could work perfectly like that.
But Typically as soon as you up the skill level...the person defending will: 1) match the attackers footwork and step back to adjust as much as he steals forwards. 2) the defender will block/grab the diag arm before it ever reaches his chest.

Thus the effect will be to stabilize and become neutral. In my school...i teach this as "My dear old friend" and believe it or not, (this neutral position) happens allot in standing sparring.

How we enter next...something i work on allot.

In my school, we use momentum. In the following clip, the right hand contact coordinate with the left foot forward stepping. This will generate the initial momentum.



Momentum + back leg control can work very good.


Re: Plan one step ahead

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:34 pm
by johnwang
everything wrote:It depends right. Machida liked to use these kinds of cross the body takedowns. Sometimes he got a leg or the other. Sometimes not. But I think he often did plan it one step ahead, but more as an "attack by drawing" rather than "progressive indirect attack" to borrow from Bruce Lee terms. Other times, it's kind of just there. In the second part of this gif, he doesn't really do the throw as cleanly as in the first, looks more like "press", but it works out, and he does catch a leg. First throw, it seems more that he "bumps" the hip of his opponent and makes the guy's hip go over his bump.

Image

To only control the leading leg can work. But to control the back leg can work better. It's like single leg vs. double leg. You can still counter the single leg. It's hard to counter the double legs.