Elbow strike/stroke

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby Trick on Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:57 pm

yes and that was what wang xiangzhai probably "warned" about, already back the taijiquan had mostly changed into a posture posing thing.
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby Trick on Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:58 pm

Trick wrote:yes and that was what wang xiangzhai probably "warned" about, already back the taijiquan had mostly changed into a posture posing thing.

as he also critizised on about many other cma's including xingyiquan
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby Bao on Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 pm

robert wrote:In taiji the body should always be connected. ... he is storing and kai is releasing. My view.


Agree on this.

Trick wrote:i think he understood. what he meant by "too many postures" was probably that it would make it difficult and take longer time(if ever) for students to get to the essence of it, its an easy "get stuck in the postures" thing for many.


well, people tend to get stuck in what's on the surface regardless what they do. The flaw is not within the arts, it's within the people.
Last edited by Bao on Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby Trick on Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:49 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:i think he understood. what he meant by "too many postures" was probably that it would make it difficult and take longer time(if ever) for students to get to the essence of it, its an easy "get stuck in the postures" thing for many.


well, people tend to get stuck in what's on the surface regardless what they do. The flaw is not within the arts, it's within the people.

the more the people flaw the more the flaw will spread, eventually the flaw will be the standard....
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby Bao on Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:25 am

Trick wrote:the more the people flaw the more the flaw will spread, eventually the flaw will be the standard....


Oh...
... I thought it already was. :P
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby Trick on Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:18 pm

yes it was apparently already back when WXZ warned about it - a flawed standard of taijiquan. and its an ongoing practice method standard. in the ever (d)evolving standard practitioners can say a boxing cross and ground wrestling is taijiquan at the same time the use of elbows is a mystery
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby BruceP on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:47 am

I don't think Graham has ever stated that "boxing cross or ground wrestling is taijiquan" but he asked about the mystery of Chou in the form.

Wayne alluded to the idea that the form is one big transition, echoing what I quoted earlier. Postures are freeze-frames that can be useful in isolating each of the 8 Gates in order to understand them as stand-alone energies.
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby BruceP on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

Steve James wrote:
White Stork posture exemplifies the ideal of Zhou with no bends or corners (matches knees) as the point(s) of awareness.


Why doesn't WS exemplify Kao?


Steve, nobody cares a single whip. Beating that dead mustang isn't going to make its mane any more ruffled.


Bao wrote: It means to stabilize, to find the spot in each and every posture where the angles of the frame are as strong as possible.

*nod

That's why White Stork doesn't exemplify the ideal of Kao.
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby Steve James on Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:36 am

why White Stork doesn't exemplify the ideal of Kao


Why? I'm serious? I see white stork as shoulder, not elbow. I was curious to hear your explanation.
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:43 am

They are both in single whip
However the moves from SW to WS highlight the 4 supplementary actions
GST and SW are variations of the 4 main actions
GST in a push pull manner and SW using them in a flaying manner
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby Steve James on Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:52 am

Hey, I didn't bring up Single Whip. My point was/is that the direction of "elbow" is almost the opposite of "shoulder," or the other side of that circle. For ex., in this diagram, if I were standing in the center --forward stance, with weight on the right foot -the exploded segment would be "kao" (which could include using the elbow, shoulder, back, hip) in that direction.

Image
https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/40500/40538 ... 38_mth.gif

I'm not saying that I'm right, or that I have the correct tcc. I don't give a shit if you think I don't either, so don't bother. I'm just asking how others conceive the form. For ex., Slant Flying is (TO ME) more like kao than chou. Just my attempt at explaining my pov.

Oh, if the image is converted to match the one Graham posted earlier (i.e., flipped vertically) it generally matches where elbow falls.
Last edited by Steve James on Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elbow strike/stroke

Postby BruceP on Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:13 pm

Steve, I referenced SW since it 'shares' Chou and Kao. Kind of accords with what Wayne wrote.

Mustang Ruffles Its Mane/Part Horse's Mane exemplifies Kao. Slant Flying is a good one as well.
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