yi-quan repelling upon contact

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby wingchun on Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:30 pm

"In yiquan there is a lot less yielding, you want to repel on contact." Can someone explain the bio-mechanics involved with using your "frame" to do this?
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby greytowhite on Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:45 pm

As they showed me very succinctly, you first reroute incoming force through your arms to your mingmen area. Once you are able to do that you then reroute to your feet. Literally, that simple except you then have to learn how to do it while moving. Go visit Taste of Death - much nicer in person than online appearances would suggest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PY0RzmkS08

Each of those postures he demos have partner drills and specific qualities involved. We went over a few other drills that day. Everyone was super humble and had a lot of experience. Partner work alternated between Yiquan drills and taiij push hands which weren't quite the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8SgYNdDbqw
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby Yeung on Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:46 am

Do you mean something like the follow repelling from a static position?

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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:14 am

Watch the little verbal misdirection just before the push
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:14 am

greytowhite wrote:As they showed me very succinctly, you first reroute incoming force through your arms to your mingmen area. Once you are able to do that you then reroute to your feet. Literally, that simple except you then have to learn how to do it while moving. Go visit Taste of Death - much nicer in person than online appearances would suggest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PY0RzmkS08

Each of those postures he demos have partner drills and specific qualities involved. We went over a few other drills that day. Everyone was super humble and had a lot of experience. Partner work alternated between Yiquan drills and taiij push hands which weren't quite the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8SgYNdDbqw



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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby greytowhite on Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:36 pm

I'm behind the camera, William Cranstoun is the kind older gentleman, I forget the other fellow's name in the sunglasses. I worked on partner exercises with William and Nick before filming that video as a reminder for future work.
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:57 pm

Thanks for that
I hadn't seen a couple of those variations
That overall set is one of the sets I teach and find great value in
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby wingchun on Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:56 pm

what's the bio-mechanics of how you connect your arms to your "frame"?
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby Yeung on Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:13 am

wingchun wrote:what's the bio-mechanics of how you connect your arms to your "frame"?

The video is performed by Kam Tung, who should be one of the best LiuHeBaFa teacher in Hong Kong. Your need to give a specific movement in order to explain it in terms of biomechanics, as the example give is not Yiquan.
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby windwalker on Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:49 am

Yeung wrote:Do you mean something like the follow repelling from a static position?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBAKLDALxII


Nice demo.

"Repelling" might be the problem for some in understanding.

"Emptying" might be a better word and way of explaining what is shown.
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby marvin8 on Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:51 pm

wingchun wrote:"In yiquan there is a lot less yielding, you want to repel on contact." Can someone explain the bio-mechanics involved with using your "frame" to do this?
greytowhite wrote:As they showed me very succinctly, you first reroute incoming force through your arms to your mingmen area. Once you are able to do that you then reroute to your feet. Literally, that simple except you then have to learn how to do it while moving. Go visit Taste of Death - much nicer in person than online appearances would suggest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PY0RzmkS08

Each of those postures he demos have partner drills and specific qualities involved. We went over a few other drills that day. Everyone was super humble and had a lot of experience. Partner work alternated between Yiquan drills and taiij push hands which weren't quite the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8SgYNdDbqw

Given Yiquan does sparring and live partner drills, are there any videos of sparring, fighting or live partner drills showing "repel on contact?" Understanding the following yiquan may be from a different lineage, can someone explain principles, qualities or bio-mechanics in videos from this youtube channel.

Andrzej Kalisz
Published on Jun 2, 2017

Yiquan Academy training. One of the stages preparing for free fighting. June 1st, 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91MAiAaG7bs


Andrzej Kalisz
Published on Apr 28, 2014

Yiquan Academy sparring meeting. Light contact san shou:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQbz1qm_grI

Andrzej Kalisz
Published on Jan 8, 2016

Preparing for free fighting.
Partners is acting here as a "moving dummy:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV2i5QhzErs
Last edited by marvin8 on Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby Trick on Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:06 pm

im far from being an physicist, but a perfect "frame" turn out to be "stronger" than an imperfect, right ?. bio-mechanics in human action its not just how to structure but when to. and the when to is very important in martial arts, the mind play the most important role.. here an quote from takeda sokaku i found on the wiki -
The secret of aiki is to overpower the opponent mentally at a glance and to win without fighting.[25]
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby middleway on Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:32 am

"In yiquan there is a lot less yielding, you want to repel on contact." Can someone explain the bio-mechanics involved with using your "frame" to do this?


Not that i do Yi Quan, but i am familiar with the idea of 'repel' on contact.

It comes from touching an constantly changing angle. Rather than a static "frame", think about trying to grab a wheel turning strongly around an axle, you will fly off and around, being repelled. This is a simple mechanical example for a more complex one in the human body.

When you dont think of 'repel' as 'fly back from' it becomes less esoteric.
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby Trick on Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:17 am

a "spinning top" have been used as an analogy by practitioners such as Che Yizhai and Kenichi Sawai
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Re: yi-quan repelling upon contact

Postby Yeung on Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:54 am

windwalker wrote:

Nice demo.

"Repelling" might be the problem for some in understanding.

"Emptying" might be a better word and way of explaining what is shown.

I cannot find a good example of yiquan repelling upon contact, may be the video of Han Xingyuan (1915-1963) can be of some help:

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av198889 ... ideocard.5

"Repelling upon contract" is making use of muscle elasticity or recoil, which is a difficult concept in biomechanics.
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