yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Postby windwalker on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:57 am

wayne hansen wrote:It was due to the fact that South Korea was fighting the Chinese communists
Nothing Chinese was acceptable
That is why the whole history of Tae Kwan do was created


would be good to post some links explaining this.
runs contrary to what I was told back in the 70s from a teacher
I was practicing with there.

What he mentioned was that the chinese did not want to teach the Koreans openly
and some of what they taught was not always complete.

His name is also romanized as:
Park Chi Moon.
Shifu Park Chil Sung was born in 1930 in what is now North Korea. He first began studying gong fu within his family at a very young age (around 7 or 8 years old). He later traveled around the Korean peninsula studying under any master he could find. At that time he met his main master, shifu Lin Ping Jiang.

During the Korean war he along with most other young men from his home town were recruited to fight for the south as guerilla fighters not actually associated with the formal army.
After the war he was able to relocate to the south and has not seen his family since then.
Shifu Park Chil Sung worked for some time after the war for the South Korean equivalent of the American CIA, training in hand to hand combat.
He has been teaching at Camp Casey Dongducheon (a U.S. Army post just south of the DMZ - north of Seoul) since the 70's, with many of his students being U.S. Military personnel. In the year 2000 he was still alive and teaching in Korea

http://www.oocities.org/mantiscave/parkchil.htm


Some history of his teacher for those interested.

His name is also romanized as:
Lin Pin Jang / Lin Ping Jiang / Lim Poom Chang / Lim Pom Chang (Korean pronunciation).
The Korean branch use a different character for "Zhang" to write shifu Lin Pin Zhang's name. This character "Zhang" should have a jade radical (yu or wang) instead of the hill (fu) radical on the left. According to the Korean sources this character was only used in Manchu male names. The sources in China write shifu's Lin Pin Zhang name as writen in this web page.
Born in 1910, shifu Lin Pin Zhang was student of shifu Ji Chung Ting (Mei Hua Tang Lang Quan) and he also learnt Tai Ji Tang Lang Quan style under shifu Sun Yuan Chang.


According to the Korean oral tradition, shifu Lin Pin Zhang was a bannerman (Manchu), as his master shifu Ji Chung Ting.
Shifu Lin Pin Zhang emigrated from Da lian (Shan Dong Province) to Korea in the late 40's (or early 50's). He first taught in Chuncheon (Kangwondo), in a tent apparently.

Then he was invited to Seoul by the "Chinese Resident's Association" to teach and he accepted as post as physical education teacher for the Chinese Primary school in Myongdong. A guan was set up within the embassy initally and this was the beginning of mantis teaching in Seoul. Other Korean sources mention that he had a school, but sometimes at the Chinese embassy (Chung Gook Tessa Gwon).

There are rumors circulating among Tang Lang Quan community that shifu Ji Chun Ting brought to Korea a Tang Lang Quan manuscript which was written by shifu Jiang Hua Long and handed by his shifu Ji Chung Ting. If you have access to this manuscript please contact me !!
There is conflicting information about the date shifu Lin Pin Zhang passed away, some of them stating 1983 or 1984, but the actual date of him passing away was in December 1982.

http://www.oocities.org/mantiscave/linpin.htm

They also have an association

The Sib Pal Gi Association (십팔기협회 Dae Han Sibpalki Hyeop Hwe; also The Korea Sibpalki Association) is a Korean martial arts association established in 1981 under the leadership of Kim Kwang-Seok (Kim Gwang-suk 김광석; 金光錫, b. 1936, style name Haebeom).

Sib Pal Ki (literally "eighteen skills") is a Korean term for "martial arts", either Chinese martial arts or Korean martial arts (as opposed to the Japanese martial arts introduced during the Japanese rule in Korea).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sib_Pal_Gi_Association
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:05 am

The only references I have are word of mouth from bob Caputo as he says were told to him by Hwang kee
This was told to me and written in bobs book in the early 70's
Take it with a grain of salt ,I don't know if it is true or not
It makes a lot of sense to me where as a lot of the Tae Kwon Do history seems a little wonky to me
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Postby edededed on Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:59 pm

In Korea they have had a strange habit to use specific martial arts' names to mean "general martial arts" sometimes, so maybe they do that with shippalgi as well.

But normally shippalgi seems to refer to a native Korean martial art that was probably revived via research. (It does look similar to Chinese martial arts, so I would guess that there was a lot of research via that route.)
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Re: yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Postby windwalker on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:44 pm

edededed wrote:In Korea they have had a strange habit to use specific martial arts' names to mean "general martial arts" sometimes, so maybe they do that with shippalgi as well.

But normally shippalgi seems to refer to a native Korean martial art that was probably revived via research. (It does look similar to Chinese martial arts, so I would guess that there was a lot of research via that route.)


Interesting I was always told it referred to chinese systems ie 18 methods . Upon a little more reading it seems the terminology dates back to an earlier date.

During the reign of King Yeongjo (r. 1724-1776) the Muye jebo was revised and supplemented with 12 additional fighting methods by Crown Prince Sado who originated the term ship pal gi - 십팔기, 十八技 (“Eighteen Fighting Methods”). Though often confused with Chinese practices of the same name and lat
er 20th century practices
, the term coined by Prince Sado, a shortened form of bonjo muye ship pal ban - 본조무예십팔반, 文章武藝十八般 ("18 Martial Arts Classes of the Yi Dynasty"), identified this collection of 18 fighting systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muyedobotongji

The term Sip Pal Gi (십팔기 "Eighteen Skills") in modern Korean martial arts has come to identify four separate activities.

there are practitioners in South Korea who follow the practices of an eclectic Chinese system of armed and unarmed Martial Arts termed Sip Pal Gi owing to the number of systems, methods and practices in its curriculum.

Individual schools will vary in the weapons used and the manner of practice.

A second and more general application of the term is as a label to identify Chinese martial arts generically, much like "kung fu" has become an umbrella term for them in the West.

Also, there are small groups of practitioners who use the term Sip Pal Gi historically, for the attempted reconstruction of 18th-century Korean martial arts based on the historical manuals, specifically the Muyesinbo, much in the same way as martial arts reconstruction in the West.

Lastly, the style usually spelled Sipalki, of dubious relation with the Chosun period martial arts, taught by Yoo Soo Nam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sib_Pal_Gi_Association
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:13 pm

My friend bob always translated it as
18 ways of escape
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Postby edededed on Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:38 pm

Windwalker:

Yeah, I think the name is old (shippalgi = 十八技 = 18 techniques/methods), but it could be that an old name was attached to revived/recreated Korean arts (which is not rare in Korea). In Chinese the name would be read as "shibaji" - I've never heard that in Chinese, but people do say "shibaban" (十八般) in China - this refers to various lists of the 18 types of weapons. (Usually the 1st 4 or so are constant, the rest seem to change depending on who is saying them.)

Wayne:
十八技 - 十八 can only be 18, 技 means technique. Maybe there was a "hidden" meaning not in the words, though (that Bob was referring to). Martial arts does often have hidden meanings after all.
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Re: yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Postby windwalker on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:46 pm

some Korean arts for comparison for those not familiar with them


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx3Hdl3tv6s
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Re: yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Postby edededed on Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:30 am

Dang - most of these I'd never heard of. Maybe they were only made popular in the last 10-20 years? I hope that they are authentic.

Glad to see sunmudo finally though. I did wonder what it looked like.
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Re: yang taijiquan in korean martial arts

Postby windwalker on Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:00 am

Was in Korea back in the late 70s they still had martial law.

In practicing with Mr Park, I was a little skeptical because I had not thought of Chinese martial arts as something I would find in Korea, not really familiar with mantis style

Met him after losing an informal match with one of his students. White crane vs mantis.

when I got a chance to go back home on leave from the military. I stopped by teacher Brendan Lai's "7* mantis" place to check on the mantis I was leaning at the time.

He confirmed it was indeed mantis, one of the older versions.

Mr Park, mentioned it was very tough during that time to learn Chinese arts, from the Chinese. Interesting enough he would never mention his own teachers name. Sometimes we would ask him about it over some drinks during a meal, it was funny as he would laugh knowing what we're trying to do.

It would be something l would find out many years later on. Koreans, the ones I knew during that time still used and considered their arts as martial arts.

I would later return in the military to Korea. At that time had the chance to introduce taiji (cmc 37 step " to one of my martial art friends a KAUTUSA "Korean Augmentation to the United States Army" that I had met there.

He enjoyed the practice, would later go on to learn and teach what is called Taekkyeon. He said it reminded him of taiji
and found many of the ideas quite similar.

Notable, what is seen in training is used real time ..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO_8UkizEW0
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:22 am, edited 8 times in total.
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