Taiji finish move development

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby GrahamB on Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:11 am

Too deadly for the ring!

We're back in 1991.
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:13 am

windwalker wrote:"I once asked my teacher, who had some reputation as a street fighter in China, about competing in MMA fights. He said the only way he would win is if he maimed the opponent, techniques that aren't allowed, for obvious reasons. "

A bad assumption that many make.
Street fighters rarely have to deal with people equal to or greater than their own skill.

Kind of the point no?

To have or develop a skill that the other person does not have or cannot deal with.

On the other hand those who test their skills in a ring have to have skills that work against those of equal or greater skill.


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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby Steve James on Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:41 am

Arterial and airway chokes are legal, no? Joint-locks are common. Well, I don't know if doing a martial art makes anyone "one punch man," but .... :)

Anyway, the 1990s, with the simultaneous arrival of the internet and mma (UFC), the question of using tcc (bagua, xingyi, cmas, in general) in competition has be raised. Nobody beforehand had questioned whether tcc could be used in boxing. But, way back in the 70s, there were people (who base training was tcc) who competed with kick-boxers in the venues that were available then. There have pictures :).
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby D_Glenn on Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:05 am

GrahamB wrote:Too deadly for the ring!

We're back in 1991.


Taken too many knuckles to the temple to remember back that far.

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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby windwalker on Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:10 am

oragami_itto wrote:
windwalker wrote: Charles wrote :"I once asked my teacher, who had some reputation as a street fighter in China, about competing in MMA fights. He said the only way he would win is if he maimed the opponent, techniques that aren't allowed, for obvious reasons. "

A bad assumption that many make.
Street fighters rarely have to deal with people equal to or greater than their own skill.

Kind of the point no?

To have or develop a skill that the other person does not have or cannot deal with.

On the other hand those who test their skills in a ring have to have skills that work against those of equal or greater skill.


Fair fights are for suckers.


edited for clarity
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby johnwang on Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:00 am

There is no need to get fancy on the Taiji finish moves. Any of the following Yang Taiji move are good finish move.

1. Turn around hammer - back fist on the head.
2. Advance hammer - vertical punch on the chest.
3. Bend bow and shoot tiger - straight punch to the face.
4. Striking tiger - hook punch to the body.
5. separate leg - front kick to the chest.
6. ...
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby marvin8 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:57 pm

johnwang wrote:There is no need to get fancy on the Taiji finish moves. Any of the following Yang Taiji move are good finish move.

1. Turn around hammer - back fist on the head.
2. Advance hammer - vertical punch on the chest.
3. Bend bow and shoot tiger - straight punch to the face.
4. Striking tiger - hook punch to the body.
5. separate leg - front kick to the chest.
6. ...


. . . kicks, throws, locks, chokes, etc., which depends on the opponent's style, momentum, actions/reactions, etc. Create opportunities, then finish. Your list doesn't normally result in a lethal blow (killing), in and of themselves.

Finishing by slamming attacker's head on the pavement doesn't seem too difficult, if that's what one wants to do. Controlling an opponent without maiming or killing may take more skill.
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby johnwang on Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:39 pm

marvin8 wrote:Finishing by slamming attacker's head on the pavement doesn't seem too difficult, if that's what one wants to do.

You still have to develop that technique.

You hope you never have to use your finish moves in your life time. You still have to develop some finish moves if you have to use it to save your life or your family members life. This way of thinking can make your CMA training to be real.

Here are 2 clips to show that I'm not just talking. I do train those finish moves myself.



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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby Taste of Death on Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:10 pm

I like the dog's finishing move. Slip the ball under your feet when you're not paying attention and you and the dummy both smash your heads.
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby marvin8 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:20 pm

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Finishing by slamming attacker's head on the pavement doesn't seem too difficult, if that's what one wants to do.

You still have to develop that technique.

You hope you never have to use your finish moves in your life time. You still have to develop some finish moves if you have to use it to save your life or your family members life. This way of thinking can make your CMA training to be real.

Here are 2 clips to show that I'm not just talking. I do train those finish moves myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvwyyj3miUo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPdGoFpEnIc

Okay. However, a more likely scenario where it is lawful to kill someone is when an attacker has a weapon. Therefore, killing training for an attacker wielding a knife (or gun) may be important. The entries in your videos are not safe against an attacker wielding a knife. Control of the arm wielding the knife may become a priority.

Excerpt from Defenses to Homicide Charges:
Fred Dahr Texas Defense Attorney wrote:There are important limitations to this right to self-defense:

• The person must not be the aggressor in the confrontation. In other words, Person A cannot attack Person B and then claim self-defense when he kills Person B when Person B responds with violence (unless Person B responds with deadly force);
• The person cannot claim self-defense where the other person only engaged in verbal provocation. This means a defendant cannot punch or batter a person who simply hurls insults at the person.
• The force used must be proportionate and reasonable under the circumstances. A person is not entitled to claim self-defense if he or she stabs an attacker multiple times with a knife when the other person simply punched the person.
• Deadly force is only authorized when deadly force is threatened against the person, when used to prevent the imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery, or when used against a person who unlawfully and with force enters your home, your vehicle, or your place of work.

The defendant must have a reasonable belief that the use of force – as well as the particular level of force used – is warranted and justified under the circumstances. This is judged on an objective level. If a reasonable person in the same situation would not have felt imminently threatened, or that the use of deadly force was called for (for instance), then the defendant may not escape criminal liability by claiming self-defense. It is immaterial what the defendant actually believed.
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby Overlord on Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:01 am

I like 擊地錘 as a finish move as a way to really finish.
But details vary. Don’t punch, it won’t work.
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby johnwang on Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:15 am

Overlord wrote:I like 擊地錘 as a finish move as a way to really finish.

Drop down hammer.

Yang Taiji has a lot of "hammer" strike. Instead of calling it "punch", Yang Taiji calls it "hammer".
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Apr 30, 2019 12:07 pm

Overlord wrote:I like 擊地錘 as a finish move as a way to really finish.
But details vary. Don’t punch, it won’t work.




I never quite get why people use Chinese characters on an English site
The next line is also a mystery to me could you elucidate
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby johnwang on Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:17 pm

wayne hansen wrote:
Overlord wrote:I like 擊地錘 as a finish move as a way to really finish.
But details vary. Don’t punch, it won’t work.

I never quite get why people use Chinese characters on an English site
The next line is also a mystery to me could you elucidate

I always hate to Google this kind of special term "Yoko Wakare". If it takes me 6 seconds to Google it, it will take 1,000 RSF members 6,000 seconds (100 minutes = 1 hour and 40 minutes). That's a lot of valuable time wasted.

If OP just use "Yoko Wakare (Side Separation)", that will be much more friendly to start a discussion thread.

When I put up a post, if I can find a picture, or a clip, I will include it. It will make my post much easily to be understood.
Last edited by johnwang on Wed May 01, 2019 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiji finish move development

Postby C.J.W. on Thu May 02, 2019 3:00 pm

SC is taught, trained, and categorized in a technique-oriented manner, which explains why it is easy for a SC guy to focus on and discuss the idea of a "finishing move." For a (good) Taiji/IMA guy, however, I'm afraid the concept of a finishing move doesn't really exist, since ANY MOVE can potentially be a finishing move.


"What is my finishing move? It's the one I'll knock you down and incapacitate you with, but I don't know what it's going to be yet."
Last edited by C.J.W. on Thu May 02, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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