New Scott Park Phillips Book

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby northern_mantis on Tue May 07, 2019 8:59 am

His Bagua book is finally out. From the sample pages it looks as bonkers and brilliant and polarising as the last one. Better than being boring!

https://www.amazon.com/Tai-Chi-Baguazha ... -2-catcorr
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby GrahamB on Tue May 07, 2019 9:21 am

Woot!
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby GrahamB on Tue May 07, 2019 1:03 pm

Just reading the intro - it's very good>

"While you read through the book, keep in mind that the beautiful arts we have today have passed through a filter of unimaginable horror".

So true.

I read this article today:

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2016/05/11/f ... -50-years/
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby roger hao on Tue May 07, 2019 2:19 pm

so.................
Towards the end of that article they include a pic of Nikita Khruschev/
Mao/Ho Chi Min/Soong Jin all having dinner. Priceless.
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby LaoDan on Wed May 08, 2019 7:35 am

Scott seems like a nice enough and humble enough person (acknowledging that he could be wrong...), but the preview did not present a strong enough case for the book to interest me. It is like claiming that since ritual was/is so important in China and theater and ritual were so prevalent that therefore the armor used in theater is a foundation for real armor. Theater armor is non-functional exaggerations for visual effect and imitates real armor rather than real armor being influenced by stage armor.

I cannot see, from the introductory information provided, why one should think that the martial arts of Taijiquan and Baguazhang were any more influenced by theatrical portrayals than armor was (i.e., theater performances reflecting martial arts rather than martial arts being influenced by theater).

Perhaps someone who has read his books could fill me in on his rationale.
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby GrahamB on Wed May 08, 2019 7:56 am

God knows. It's all very complicated.

For instance, if you look up Chinese Theatre on Wikipedia there's a mention of thing going back to 1,000BC. So it's old, older than "China" in fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatre_of_China

Here's a quote regarding Han Dynasty shows, which you can't say have nothing to do with "Martial Arts":

During the Han dynasty (206 BC–220 AD), a wrestling show called Horn-Butting Show (Chinese: 角觝戲; pinyin: Jiǎodǐxì) flourished and became one of the so-called "Hundred Shows" (百戲) under Emperor Wu (reigned 141–87 BC). While most probably this was also a spectator sport, both textual and archaeological evidence suggests that performers were dressed in fixed roles and performed according to a plot. One such story the wrestlers re-enacted was the battle between a tiger and a magician named "Lord Huang from the East Sea" (東海黃公).[10] Han-period murals discovered from an aristocratic tomb in Dahuting, Xinmi, Henan, offer strong proof that entertainers performed at banquets in the homes of higher-ranking ministers during this period.[11]


But the people in the Han Dynasty would have no concept of "martial arts" either, since they didn't exist as discrete entities until the Ming Dynasty.

Who knows.

However, one thing is true - there's more of a connection between Chinese theatre and Chinese martial arts than most martial artists are aware of, so perhaps his books do something to redress the balance.
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby Bao on Wed May 08, 2019 8:02 am

GrahamB wrote:However, one thing is true - there's more of a connection between Chinese theatre and Chinese martial arts than most martial artists are aware of, so perhaps his books do something to redress the balance.


I certainly don't agree with everything Mr Phillips write. Far so. But he has indeed good points.

This book below explains some of the connections. Absolutely brilliant, so if you can get hold on it for less than the price here, you are very lucky.

https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Lion-Dan ... 0893440388
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby Bhassler on Wed May 08, 2019 12:59 pm

Maybe if he had actually learned some of the arts he writes about he wouldn't have to make up cultural explanations for movements with clear martial purposes. Some of his blog posts are almost as bad as his martial arts in terms of false connections and huge leaps of misunderstanding.
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby GrahamB on Thu May 09, 2019 1:51 am

Ad hominem. Could you say what you don't like about his ideas, not about the man?
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby Trick on Thu May 09, 2019 2:10 am

Has he a background as a dancer, maybe that’s why he want Taijiquan to be a dance/theatrical performance..if that is what he want to come to a conclusion with his book ??……I remember during the 90’s in my hometown in Sweden quite a few dancers took up taiji practice, something that probably has happened elsewhere too....nothing wrong with dance performances, but Taijiquan is not such
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby Trick on Thu May 09, 2019 2:24 am

However a good warmup exercise is the “Native American Indian” war(rior)-dance, kind of as Taijiquan’s “golden rooster stand on one leg” alternating left/right/left and so on in a forward jumping fashion, could have some cool combat application to it.....well the native Americans are supposed to originally migrated from east Asia.....Taijiquan is truly old 8-)
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby GrahamB on Thu May 09, 2019 2:44 am

His background is as much Chinese martial art as a dancer. Chinese Theatre isn't what I would call 'dance' though. But anyway...

Dance has an intimate relationship with fighting, like "war dances" show. Ballet is based on fencing postures, etc... like everything real - there's no simple answer and its complicated. Bruce Lee was the Cha Cha champion of Hong Kong :)

The Hakka is a war "dance" (amongst other things):

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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby Bao on Thu May 09, 2019 3:15 am

I don't understand why his background should be a problem. Everyone has different backgrounds and different interests. He seems to have been around and met many people and had several different teachers. He has read a lot and follows discussions and forums (you can bet that he is lurking around here as well.) From what I've read in his blog, I don't believe that his knowledge is very deep. He writes as someone who is looking on things from the outside, not as one who has the experience himself. That could have an impact on his views and ideas, but I don't think it's a big problem. He has a lot of different ideas and thoughts and mostly present them without judging too much and without trying to teach everyone how things should be. What I can sense is that he sometimes makes up his own conclusions, sometimes generalising a bit too much and sometimes is too extreme with his ideas. But I would not blame him, as it's probably all about marketing and branding. If you want to make your voice heard you need to present something different and unique. If you want to sell books or a brand, that is what you need to do. If he manages to get the discussions going in a forum like this, then he has already done pretty well, far better than most of us here.
...Heck, no one ever shows interest in me. ;D
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby GrahamB on Thu May 09, 2019 3:49 am

If you want information about what he studied and where it's pretty easy to find - he has a CV online:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... CV2016.pdf

He seems equally weighted in Taoism, Dance and Chinese martial arts.

Short version:

Image

Image
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Re: New Scott Park Phillips Book

Postby Trick on Thu May 09, 2019 4:05 am

GrahamB wrote:His background is as much Chinese martial art as a dancer. Chinese Theatre isn't what I would call 'dance' though. But anyway...

Dance has an intimate relationship with fighting, like "war dances" show. Ballet is based on fencing postures, etc... like everything real - there's no simple answer and its complicated. Bruce Lee was the Cha Cha champion of Hong Kong :)

The Hakka is a war "dance" (amongst other things):


That’s news to me, ballet based on fencing postures!. Yes there’s also Okinawan folk dances that supposedly has martial arts moves “hidden” in them. But karate is still the Okinawan (“folk”) martial art, and that’s no dance....although there is a partner I can imagine that pair dancing could teach certain aspects that could be of use if there would be an opponent around instead of an partner..
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