TaijiFit with David Dorian Ross

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: TaijiFit with David Dorian Ross

Postby yeniseri on Tue May 28, 2019 10:43 am

windwalker wrote:For those interested
https://www.vacareers.va.gov/Careers/SupportServices/

Highly applaud anyone considering helping whether volunteer or not, in offering services to vets.
Did contact some VA hospitals in my area offering free services, taiji specifically as a movement
program for those interested, maybe as part of a larger rehabilitation effort for those in physical therapy.

For the record dont really feel teaching or using taiji in this way is beneficial for the art. Permotes misconceptions
about taiji not necessarily good for the art itself,,but do understand how it might be useful in some therapeutic protocols. ,

Haven't followed up yet, but if one contacts any VA Hosp they should be able to advise on how to begin the process.

not a fan of what the teacher listed in the thread is trying to do, seems very commercial setting his company or org. as the 3erd party contact for the VA.

Do support any sincere outreach for anyone offering to help
the vets....


Ditto!
The VA has a Whole Health strategy to be proactive in the lives of veterans and this is one Initiative in that regard.
Instead of looking at the disease aspect, preventive strategies are attempting to make inroads and broaden the veterans' view on health. I am close to a VAMC and they have yoga, PIlates, Tai chi chih, Ai Chi, etc as part of that movement.
As mitigation for PTSD, it is a great start. Having veterans spend time actually doing after class practice is the clincher and very few are willing (appear to be) to make it a change regarding incorporation of taijiquan as part of that behaviour modification. Nevertheless, the contacts made by Mr Ross is positive
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Re: TaijiFit with David Dorian Ross

Postby LaoDan on Tue May 28, 2019 11:48 am

windwalker wrote:For the record dont really feel teaching or using taiji in this way is beneficial for the art. Permotes misconceptions
about taiji not necessarily good for the art itself,,but do understand how it might be useful in some therapeutic protocols.

This appears to be a preliminary study with numerous limitations (small sample size, non-rigorous? Journal, no control population like walking group, etc. for comparison...), but does look specifically at TaijiFit [the first according to the authors]:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6329221/

It seems to me that Jet Li and DD Ross are just cashing in on the health reputation of Taijiquan. This seems to be a modified gentle exercise routine that cannot really be considered as Taiji. It is perhaps better to consider it to be qigong based on Taiji movements with the addition of other exercises. TaijiFit does NOT equal Taijiquan.
Last edited by LaoDan on Tue May 28, 2019 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TaijiFit with David Dorian Ross

Postby everything on Tue May 28, 2019 12:28 pm

Well there is the general question of "what is taijiquan"
and "what do/should you teach"
but there are probably more answers than there are teachers.

This is like that joke where most people think they are above average drivers
but that is mathematically impossible.

If there is no partner work allowed, then that already answers
some of this question, though.

Someone can say "this is X, not an MA, but came from an MA."

We might or might not like that, but it seems honest and helpful in other ways.

I don't know any vets, but I wouldn't mind helping anyone.
A sad irony is that I've kind of messed up various small joints from silly weekend warrior activity, so my basic walking could use some work. Shit.
Who wants to learn from someone who might have less than perfect gait, lol.
Last edited by everything on Tue May 28, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TaijiFit with David Dorian Ross

Postby Bhassler on Tue May 28, 2019 2:46 pm

everything wrote:This is like that joke where most people think they are above average drivers
but that is mathematically impossible.


Only if you don't understand math.
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Re: TaijiFit with David Dorian Ross

Postby everything on Tue May 28, 2019 4:00 pm

lol
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: TaijiFit with David Dorian Ross

Postby LaoDan on Thu May 30, 2019 9:52 am

everything wrote:Well there is the general question of "what is taijiquan"
and "what do/should you teach"
but there are probably more answers than there are teachers.

This is like that joke where most people think they are above average drivers
but that is mathematically impossible.

If there is no partner work allowed, then that already answers
some of this question, though.

Someone can say "this is X, not an MA, but came from an MA."

We might or might not like that, but it seems honest and helpful in other ways.

I don't know any vets, but I wouldn't mind helping anyone.
A sad irony is that I've kind of messed up various small joints from silly weekend warrior activity, so my basic walking could use some work. Shit.
Who wants to learn from someone who might have less than perfect gait, lol.

I do not know enough about TaijiFit to be clear about their methodology, so I guess that I cannot really evaluate whether or not it meets my understanding of TJQ. Also, TJQ is difficult to define in a consensus, but there are some things that I look for.

To me an important factor is merging actions with awareness. TaijiFit seems to promote the “no corrections” and “no memorization” model of feel good types of gentle movement activities, meaning that participants probably do not have much mental awareness of what they are doing as they merely follow the teacher and the teacher’s cues. This does not seem to be promoting awareness for/in the movements, at least not in any depth. They instead appear to promote the feeling (awareness?) of qi and flow; but this criteria is not objective and can be susceptible to self-delusion. There does not appear to be any objective feedback in the TaijiFit program, and feedback from interactive work is explicitly prohibited.

I also consider TJQ to be focusing on the parasympathetic nervous system in order to train things like relaxation and calm, and countering the fight-or-flight response (i.e., the sympathetic nervous system), etc. But with no apparent activity in the TaijiFit program that presents conditions where the fight-or-flight response ever activates, how does one learn to avoid/overcome it? Still, many activities that are not considered to be TJQ can promote the parasympathetic NS, like spending time in nature, getting a massage, meditating, playing with animals or children, as well as more closely related activities such as yoga and qigong, so this is not a definition of TJQ. I consider it to be an integral part of TJQ, and if it is lacking then I tend to view the activity as being non-TJQ. For it to be TJQ to me, the program would need to practice maintaining parasympathetic control even when challenged, rather than avoiding it altogether.

You may have other ideas, but these are the first few that come to my mind.
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Re: TaijiFit with David Dorian Ross

Postby CheapBastid on Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:37 am

I met Mr. Dorian Ross at our push hands meetup years before he linked with Jet Li, back when he was calling himself 'America's Tai Chi Champion'.

...I sadly felt no sign of that in his touch.
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