Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby everything on Tue May 28, 2019 12:44 pm

Just curious if your form or circle walking or 5 elements or similar has helped you with minor tweaks (small ligament tears)?

Or did you do the proper RICE or whatever treatment like a smart person would do?

Me, I have "played through" some minor issues and it's obviously pretty stupid to do.
Some "turf toe", a "tailor's bunion", a mild ligament issue.
This is definitely not "listening to one's body".
However, I am scaling back my schedule and starting to do more gentle exercises.
E.g., kb swings, not running.
Simple taichi form, super gentle, mostly qigong, nothing "externally" applicable.
Lots of stretching, ice, compression, rest (well failing on sleep).

Not seeking any medical advice. What are some of your stories on healing the tweaks?
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby Trick on Wed May 29, 2019 1:32 am

When younger(and up to not too long time ago) I played hard no pain no gain( not too much brain) and gotten some problem in left hip and knee. Doing the Taiji forms(Yang or/and Hunyuan) seem to make the discomfort slightly worse. One month ago I began learning some XYLHQ and dropped the Taiji practice(for a while) with it’s basic bufa practice the discomfort in my hip has gone and knee feels quite ok.
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby greytowhite on Wed May 29, 2019 7:12 am

Bagua silk reeling has helped me tremendously. The circle walking is getting better but doing "wipe the bowl" and really sinking through my legs repeatedly has definitely helped with my knees.
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby everything on Wed May 29, 2019 12:13 pm

Thanks I think I need to hear this because it's really the right answer for me.

But I'm kinda ignoring telling myself this.

so hearing some other people's stories here is motivating! :-)
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby Bao on Wed May 29, 2019 1:19 pm

Don’t know if I understood you completely, but anyway... I think that I might have developed some bad habits after a short break from my Tai Chi, when I had already practiced maybe six or seven years. Before I practiced at least one to two hours everyday and I had done so every since I started my practice. But when I stopped for a few months and started again, my knees started to hurt. This is the very reason for why I started to practice Cheng Bagua. It helped my body in many ways. I had no problems with me knees practicing Bagua and it was great to use the body, spine and balance differently. For a couple of years I didn’t practice tai chi long forms, but I still did tai chi drills, postures and jibengong. It took a long time to understand what I did wrong with my knees when I practice long form. Later when I learned the sun form, I preferred Sun over Yang for a long time much because of that the footwork was different and less tough for the knees. Later I returned more to Yang. But still today I must be very careful and precise with all of the weight shifting and stance transitions or I can feel some pain in the knees.

One of my Yang TJQ teachers said that if he practice every day, he won’t have any problems at all, but if he didn’t practice for one week and started again, he will have problems with his knees. Tai Chi is more demanding than people realize and the better you are and the more correct you do, the more demanding the practice becomes and the more precise you need to be.

(...oh, and by the way, why did you post this in OT instead of main board? Seems to be main board material.)
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby everything on Wed May 29, 2019 4:26 pm

Yeah I kinda figured it's more OTT b/c it's not really about martial arts so much.

Bagua seems super attractive to me. Soccer/football is really hard on the middle-aged body. Tai chi never game me any issues afaik. I'll try to phase back in (form only, though).
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby Walk the Torque on Wed May 29, 2019 4:35 pm

Hi Everything,

a word of caution; minor tweaks can become major tears if overstretched or fa jin'd through (exerting too much force through the affected area).

personally I think any gentle movement that promotes blood flow and a general feeling of well being is of benefit, but control must be exercised, especially after warming up as you might not feel the further damage you are doing at the time, only to discover later that you 'went too far'.

Konn
Last edited by Walk the Torque on Wed May 29, 2019 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby everything on Wed May 29, 2019 5:39 pm

Thanks, that is definitely my concern.

For example, recently one day after playing futsal (sort of soccer on a basketball court) while wearing too-narrow shoes, I thought I had a sprain, so I used "RICE" for 2-3 weeks, but it instead seems to have been the beginning of a "tailor's bunion", which is a small bunion on the pinky toe side. It's not noticeable to anyone with an untrained eye looking at my foot, but I can tell. It is mostly pain free in every day walking (some soreness on waking or after sitting a long time). If I did a lot of miles (like at a theme park), it would be one of the first spots to hurt, and bunions can become a problem interfering with normal walking. At that point I wouldn't look like someone who did IMA with nice moves into old age, which is one of the most attractive seeming side benefits about IMA (non martial). Usually on rsf, I'd say we pay a lot of attention to various joints' health, but all the tiny joints in one's foot are pretty easy to take for granted! Abusing them is fun but stupid.

As far as minimizing long term damage, I think the smart thing to do would be to give up running/cutting sports at least for a long time, and take up IMA and yoga. We'll see how soon I get smart...
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby wayne hansen on Wed May 29, 2019 6:54 pm

It always saddens me to see people use RICE rather than traditional Chinese methods
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby edededed on Wed May 29, 2019 8:24 pm

What is bagua silk reeling? So-called "tea cups" maybe?

Bagua stepping is nice as the practice is simple so you can just concentrate on being gentle and not hurting yourself. Do take special care of the knees (some people get knee pain initially).
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby Bao on Thu May 30, 2019 4:15 am

edededed wrote:What is bagua silk reeling?


Everything in Bagua is silk-reeling. Or should be.
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- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby Franklin on Thu May 30, 2019 9:16 am

there have been times when due to injury
taiji was the only thing I could train
(and at the time a very relaxed and soft version of training -- to fit what I could actually do
then over time /months - eventually getting stronger and recovering)

at the time -- it was literally the only training I could do
(very soft and with range of motion modified to what I could actually do)

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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby everything on Thu May 30, 2019 11:54 am

Sometimes I do babu koubu and it is impressively
simple but helpful.

Surely it's a fundamental building block of the footwork and spiraling shenfa.

Even helps with soccer footwork (stepping) and turns.
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby oragami_itto on Thu May 30, 2019 12:45 pm

What got me started back on the Taijiquan kick was how tight and twisted my legs were getting. I had shooting pain and was walking on the outside edges of my feet. Standing practice and great sparrows tail style bow stance weight shifting helps keep me uncripple
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Re: Small tweaks and tai chi form or similar

Postby taiwandeutscher on Thu May 30, 2019 5:05 pm

Coming from a bad left skiing knee and totally torn ligaments from volleyball at the right ankle in my teens, it took several yrs. of relaxed Yang TJQ to clear those problems, especially those created by surgery. In my middle yrs., I did train internal and external, with no problems, many single leg pistols etc. Now with 60, I need to move on a regular basis, still working to sink in a proper way, jibengong gets more an more important. With a bout of foot pain, plantarfasziitis, 3 weeks of rest, lots of magnesiumcitrate, and some deep tissue massage did wonders, since then also using gel inlays and better shoes. Coming back from a smashed ulna, with titanium and screws, was most difficult at 55, but finally brought me to treasures neigong and sitting meditation. Football, oh no, that is not really healthy. Small injuries, I do work on with chinese ointments and tuina from a friend, not really stopping to train, but reduced.
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