Push Hands Hohrr!! What Is It Good For?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Push Hands Hohrr!! What Is It Good For?

Postby marvin8 on Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:15 pm

grzegorz wrote:
marvin8 wrote:
grzegorz wrote:As one who has trained MMA, BJJ and boxing for years I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but I have to admit that I am disappointed to see traditional schools switch to MMA.

In real fighting I never think in terms of MMA but traditional CMA with or without a knife.

You may be misinterpreting them. They did not "switch to MMA." They are doing "Xing yi sparring," as Tim Cartmell explains it. As part of their aliveness training, they spar or may enter MMA competitions. In training for real fighting, they think in terms of aliveness (e.g., energy, movement, timing, etc.). Who's to say "traditional CMA" did not spar or compete (lei tai)?

grzegorz wrote:FWIW, MMA also attracts lots of athletes whose interest in arts is only about competition. Point being that I think MMA builds fighters in part because it attracts highly competitive athletic people and those who don't fit into that mold will probably discontinue at some point.

MMA attracts lots of people whose interests are learning to defend themselves against non-compliant opponents which the martial arts were designed for. Most of the time MMA is spent training, not sparring or competing. MMA gyms are often referred to as teams, as they work together to become better martial artists.


Yes Marvin, I know about those and these things and Tim. I first started training with Ralph Gracie during the first few UFCs in the nineties. I have seen the MMA scene change and evolve. Personally I think that original form of BJJ in nineties was mich more street based but whatever.

In order to continue to compete successfully in MMA, BJJ fighters had to improve and expand their entering skills (e.g., punches, kicks, wrestling, etc.). However, I don't see how the evolution of MMA effects how TCMA trains if sparring has always been a part of it's curriculum.

grzegorz wrote:My point is people can train however they like as I do but being that where I live there are 5 MMA gyms within walking distance of my house I hope someone keeps some traditions alive. With my job and work unfortunately I cannot.

When I left Shanghai MMA/BJJ gyms started popping up and I am sure they are thriving.

Just as Bruce Lee brought awareness to wing chun and martial arts, the UFC increased awareness to MMA and created an industry where people could earn a living fighting, teaching, reporting, promoting, etc.

The popularity of MMA may bring more eyes to TMA schools. But to stay alive, it is up to TMAs to provide the benefits of training MAs people are seeking.
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Re: Push Hands Hohrr!! What Is It Good For?

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:09 pm

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... -hACZK5svy



They are still doing all the traditional stuff
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Re: Push Hands Hohrr!! What Is It Good For?

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:29 pm

Marvin,

We can agree to disgree.

As someone who has seen both sides I am still convinced that BJJ and MMA being more of a sport is what keeps people coming back and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I am not convinced that MMA is the end all be all of marital arts it is worth mentoring that some even question how much Bruce Lee actually knew WC but that is a discussuon for another day.

Again do what you wish and train as you wish. I just don't see the need to make an intellectual argument out of how and why one trains that they train. I wasn't doing BJJ because I thought I could kick some ass one day I did it because I simply enjoyed doing it.

Unfortunately now I only wrestle packages some over a hundred pounds and a 500 pound water barrels. In these situations push hands is what has allows me to do this for 12 hours a day without wrecking my body and not BJJ although judo has helped me too.

Good times, I said what I wanted to say feel free to have the final thought.
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Push Hands Hohrr!! What Is It Good For?

Postby marvin8 on Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:47 pm

grzegorz wrote:Marvin,

We can agree to disgree.

As someone who has seen both sides I am still convinced that BJJ and MMA being more of a sport is what keeps people coming back and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I am not convinced that MMA is the end all be all of marital arts it is worth mentoring that some even question how much Bruce Lee actually knew WC but that is a discussuon for another day.

Again do what you wish and train as you wish. I just don't see the need to make an intellectual argument out of how and why one trains that they train. I wasn't doing BJJ because I thought I could kick some ass one day I did it because I simply enjoyed doing it.

I did not make an argument. You're bringing up arguments I never made. In my last post, I highlighted some of your words in red and commented on them, not knowing exactly why you brought up MMA.
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