An interview about training boxers with

[Seán]

Alles mit der Ruhe Torsten, alles mit der Ruhe. I find Jake's criticism valid, because you really didn't explain anything in the article. If you don't wanna explain what makes your stuff different or special, well, you can't be surprised when people say that it's nothing new. And a relaxed, "effortless" punch is really nothing new to boxers and martial arts practitioners worth their salt. Even the "intent" or psychological aspect is nothing new. I'm by no means saying that you suck or that what you do is crap. Hell, if I have time in the new year when I go up to Germany maybe I could drop by and check your stuff out? Wäre das in Ordnung?

[KHK]

@ Karl
I have read some threads on German MA boards, where Torsten threatened people in much the same way as he tried to threaten Jake here. A Yin style practitioner from Münster comes to the mind. It's always the same procedure, once someone takes a critical standpoint on the material presented or the way it is presented. Jakes intuition is right on target AFAIC.

you have to tell the whole story. The other guy calls him an charlatan. The thread is still there to read.

[JAB]

Karl
A lot of skepticism surrounds Torsten because he presents himself, and what he teaches, as something different /new / never before seen etc. and then when you do see it you go, "Whats so different?" I have no clue if he is a charltan, but sounds kinda strange when people all over the world are calling bullshit on his stuff.
If you would like my personal opinion... what he does is nothing out of the ordinary for those of us training true arts. I think it is okay, but nothing like what Torsten builds it up to be! He reminds me of a car salesman. I am just buying a Toyota, but he is steadfastly trying to convince me that what he has to offer is really a Ferrari!

Jake

PS Torsten you are obviously lurking, why not address this all yourself instead of sending out your students? The only thing you have added to this thread is a juvenile threat to me. Oh and BTW I taught a seminar in Germany, I do not come over all the time, though I would love to come back!

[KHK]

Hi Jake,

Karl
You are obviously a friend/student of his so, come on. His post was threatening, and that was his intention via his "tone" if you will.

Torsten is a friend of mine,i am not his student. I do my own stuff, LHBF and Sun Taijiquan. I know him well, and belive me or not. It was just a friedly offer to show you what his stuff is all about.

Best,
Karl

[cdobe]

@ Karl
I have read some threads on German MA boards, where Torsten threatened people in much the same way as he tried to threaten Jake here. A Yin style practitioner from Münster comes to the mind. It's always the same procedure, once someone takes a critical standpoint on the material presented or the way it is presented. Jakes intuition is right on target AFAIC.

you have to tell the whole story. The ohter guy calls him an charlatan. The thread is still there to read.

The He Jinbao student wrote, that telling people that they could learn to generate extraordinary power by relaxing only isn't honest and therefore charlatanry.

EDIT: He didn't explicitly address Torsten

[KHK]

Karl
A lot of skepticism surrounds Torsten because he presents himself, and what he teaches, as something different /new / never before seen etc. and then when you do see it you go, "Whats so different?" I have no clue if he is a charltan, but sounds kinda strange when people all over the world are calling bullshit on his stuff.
If you would like my personal opinion... what he does is nothing out of the ordinary for those of us training true arts. I think it is okay, but nothing like what Torsten builds it up to be! He reminds me of a car salesman. I am just buying a Toyota, but he is steadfastly trying to convince me that what he has to offer is really a Ferrari!

Hi Jake,

i think you trust Jess OBrien?

This is what he wrotes in the old Empyflower Forum after he met Torsten. He can confirm it if he likes.

http://www.inneres-boxen.com/?p=22

There where many texts like this from other Emtyflower members he met in the US. Even Michael A. Wieck aka MIke Strong respectet him.

Ok, this is not my thing here. He will express himself, i hope.

Best,
Karl

[Internal Boxing]

Alles mit der Ruhe Torsten, alles mit der Ruhe. I find Jake's criticism valid, because you really didn't explain anything in the article. If you don't wanna explain what makes your stuff different or special, well, you can't be surprised when people say that it's nothing new. And a relaxed, "effortless" punch is really nothing new to boxers and martial arts practitioners worth their salt. Even the "intent" or psychological aspect is nothing new. I'm by no means saying that you suck or that what you do is crap. Hell, if I have time in the new year when I go up to Germany maybe I could drop by and check your stuff out? Wäre das in Ordnung?

hi Seán, null problemo. is it realy not interessted for you guys, that a IMA praktiker work with professionell Boxers.
You say right that it is not new for boxer or other map.
I can tell you, that it is a big different between the understanding of "relaxing" and effortless and the work with this, even the work with "intent" work.
So I can tell you, that I have find a realy easy way to work with this deeper an effectiver as you can believe.
So what I do is, I make laud noises, and sometime it comes good back an sometime not understanding, Its all ok.

[Internal Boxing]

PS Torsten you are obviously lurking, why not address this all yourself instead of sending out your students? The only thing you have added to this thread is a juvenile threat to me. Oh and BTW I taught a seminar in Germany, I do not come over all the time, though I would love to come back!

Sorry Jab, but I understand nothing of this what you are talking.

[Internal Boxing]

Hell, if I have time in the new year when I go up to Germany maybe I could drop by and check your stuff out? Wäre das in Ordnung?

Sure, you and all others are always welcome to check me out.

I bring you all a big step more forward in you own stuff!

All the best,
Torsten

ps, I am not a challanger, I am a trainer

[JAB]

Hey jab,
I don´t know what you are talking about. I train professionel Boxer with my stuff. You think realy that they are stupid!?
I saw that you give in Germany seminars, so if you interessdet we can met us at your next visit in Germany and I can show you a little bit of my stuff. What you think about of this?

All the best,
Torsten

You do not remember this post you made just yesterday??

[Internal Boxing]

Hey jab,
I don´t know what you are talking about. I train professionel Boxer with my stuff. You think realy that they are stupid!?
I saw that you give in Germany seminars, so if you interessdet we can met us at your next visit in Germany and I can show you a little bit of my stuff. What you think about of this?

All the best,
Torsten

You do not remember this post you made just yesterday??

You understand this realy as a challange!? What´s up with you!? I will only show you something.

All the best,
Torsten

[Internal Boxing]

The He Jinbao student wrote, that telling people that they could learn to generate extraordinary power by relaxing only isn't honest and therefore charlatanry.

EDIT: He didn't explicitly address Torsten

Hey Christian, it is always the same, he has never met me. And what I do is not in his world or in his expiriens, so it is not real. It is so easy and clear. So nothing can bring the world out of the balance. Wow this is good.

All the best,
Torsten

[Shi_Lei]

I agree with Jakes point that Thorsten did not say that much in his article, although I guess it is difficult to explain verbally.
Yet, I am bewildered that Jake interpreted his post as a threat. I met Thorsten once in a demonstration and know his writings on German boards. Hence, I am pretty sure he honestly meant what he said. He would like to show you what he does, in a friendly way that is.

Although I was not really convinced about his approach in the (too brief) demonstration he gave in school in Berlin a while back and I tend to find his "marketing" a bit offensive as well (that might be a taste thing though). However, I must admit that I did not yet have the opportunity to get a real introduction to his method and I am still an undergraduate in IMA or MA in general.

In any case, we certainly must credit him for helping to promote internal approaches to martial arts. Training a Boxer who competes successfully on a international level, and who publicly admits that he trains with him, is not a small achievement - even more so for an IMAist.

[klonk]

Soap opera. As this controversy arose elsewhere, and came here, I suggest you take it elsewhere again. And the horse you rode in on.

[ashe]

there's not a problem here just yet...