Interview with chris li about internal power training

[littlepanda]

https://thewayyoupractice.com/2019/07/1 ... tial-arts/

[suckinlhbf]

Like his "efficient movement".

[windwalker]

. I’d also have to say that defeating or not defeating a particular person doesn’t necessarily say much about the method or theory. Everybody wins and loses when you roll.

It sounds confused.

Saying it has to be felt seems to me to be a cop out.
There should be some definitive examples of what can be done using IP or what's called internal power that cannot be done by any other method .

If it is indeed about power as he suggests then it would seem that there would be some definite advantages and examples that one can show showing this to be true.

Are there?

[suckinlhbf]

Saying it has to be felt seems to me to be a cop out

My experience is it does has to be felt. Everybody is different. And it is fun to feel.

what's called internal power that cannot be done by any other method

It would say it can be done by any method. The key is what is the most efficient method at "that" moment.

[windwalker]

Saying it has to be felt seems to me to be a cop out

My experience is it does has to be felt. Everybody is different. And it is fun to feel.

what's called internal power that cannot be done by any other method

It would say it can be done by any method. The key is what is the most efficient method at "that" moment.

Seems like we're talking about two different things.

Subjective feeling vs. Objective effect.

Chinese Masters that I've met tend to demonstrate things that cannot be done by any other method.

They do this so there is an objective way of looking at it that then promotes one's curiosity to feel it. Yes it is fun to feel a very different method and effect being used by one who has skill.



I would not call IP or internal methods efficient methods.

If they were so efficient more people would be using them, many of the discussions would not take place because people would know.

I would say they're very different, whether they are efficient or not depends on usage and skill.

[suckinlhbf]

different things

It seems another difference we are having is I don't distinguish methods as 'internal', 'external', or ……. as long as they are efficient and effective.

[windwalker]

It seems another difference we are having is I don't distinguish methods as 'internal', 'external', or ……. as long as they are efficient and effective.

If true then why

My experience is it does has to be felt. Everybody is different. And it is fun to feel.

Why would one need to feel anything....They would be able to see the result of efficient and effective movement.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnG7PWGrx20&t=1s

Power, speed, effective and efficient movement

The claim by those practicing IP and internal methods is that they are different
and provide some advantage that as yet to be seen because " it has to be felt"

Chinese, concepts concerning this are quite clear and detailed.
With many often doubting what is shown with out having felt it.

I should add that what is often shown is only shown in demo mode making the distinction very clear.
There are very few to no CMA traditional arts that have been shown to retain their functionality
when used in the modern combative sportive events. Unlike BJJ, boxing and some other arts..

sportive events are use as an objective measure only,
understanding that the focus is different. Many arts are quite
functional and practiced with different focus outside this setting.


The write up was good, expressing his view points
which from my POV seem kind of confused..

interesting reading.

[everything]

when we do efficient movements, like hitting the golf ball just right, it feels effortless. in that sense it feels like nothing. We don't feel our fascia or nervous system or this obscure muscle or whatever. Just nothing. Ease.

As far as "internal" it feels more like it's a training catalyst to feeling this "effortless power", this overall ease. There is a "feeling" that seems to help getting to the "no feeling". There are also important details like how do you link your hands in a grip to hold the club. Personally all those important biomechanical details - I'd just call them "biomechnical" or "technique", not internal or external. shrug.

[GrahamB]

Jiujitsu can feel effortless without being "internal".

This interview with Chris Li is long and rambling. And that's about it. Each to their own I guess

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

Saying it has to be felt seems to me to be a cop out.

Says the guy who has said the same thing at least a hundred times????

[windwalker]

Saying it has to be felt seems to me to be a cop out.

Says the guy who has said the same thing at least a hundred times????

context is your friend.....

Saying it has to be felt seems to me to be a cop out.
There should be some definitive examples of what can be done using IP or what's called internal power that cannot be done by any other method .

followed by

Chinese Masters that I've met tend to demonstrate things that cannot be done by any other method.

They do this so there is an objective way of looking at it that then promotes one's curiosity to feel it. Yes it is fun to feel a very different method and effect being used by one who has skill.

[Graculus]

The other thing about internal power and 'it has to be felt' is that it can be difficult to see a difference in what a practitioner is doing, unless they exaggerate their movement or you are standing very close and looking at the right thing. Feeling it can convince you that something different is going on, but video footage might be entirely unconvincing.

And to be honest, it can be very difficult to figure out what is going on even if you are right there (and feeling it) – and even baby steps to reproducing it in any useful form can take a long, long time. It involves the use of the body in ways that make it very difficult to get reliable feedback on, and oftentimes training and demonstration methods seem to be confused (and may appear 'unrealistic').

Still, there are those that have found it a valid and interesting pursuit. Certainly not for everyone, and not a fix-all remedy, though.

Graculus
http://ichijoji.blogspot.com

[robert]

The other thing about internal power and 'it has to be felt' is that it can be difficult to see a difference in what a practitioner is doing, unless they exaggerate their movement or you are standing very close and looking at the right thing. Feeling it can convince you that something different is going on, but video footage might be entirely unconvincing.

And to be honest, it can be very difficult to figure out what is going on even if you are right there (and feeling it) – and even baby steps to reproducing it in any useful form can take a long, long time. It involves the use of the body in ways that make it very difficult to get reliable feedback on, and oftentimes training and demonstration methods seem to be confused (and may appear 'unrealistic').

I agree.

Yang Zhenduo said:
The traditional Yang style is characterized by movements which are slow, smooth and even. The energy is retained inside the body, rather than displayed openly. It is soft outside, but hard within! This is much misunderstood. There must be real power inside, not nothing but softness.

[johnwang]

Some IP may only work in slow speed demo and will never work in fast speed in the ring, or on the mat.

[klonk]

Some IP may only work in slow speed demo and will never work in fast speed in the ring, or on the mat.

True.