Side effects of the deep breathings

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby wiesiek on Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:08 am

Do You remember old register machine with the crank-handle?
If you imagine it in DT, and every turn of the handle is connected with the breath ...

It was my own, 1st invented visualization technique and I`m still using it from time to time .

I would like to add:
that during 1st of 4 weeks of the trip I wasn`t able to practice anything, just bowings and kinda of incantations.
Any attempt to breathing, standing etc was ended rapidly by burst of energy which literally knocked me off...
I returned to my daily routines /with some modifications/ couple days ago.
basically I may say as many before me:
nothing change, I just feel better connection to the something like.... Universe ?, Everything?,
Gee, hard to find the word, hmm -
- my antennas are better tuned for reviving messages avalible in space around. 8-)

I even started to teach /but only really close friend when I was asked for/
Last edited by wiesiek on Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby BonesCom on Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:33 am

Wiesiek,

The way you describe your experience sounds like textbook A&P on the progress of insight map.

Read more about it here:
https://alohadharma.com/2011/06/04/the-ap/

Looks after yourself and don't make any big decisions quite yet.

If it is indeed A&P then you might want to reach out someone versed in this terrain because next up will probably be a stage that if your not working with someone could really destabilise you.

I know a number of Buddhist teachers that are well-versed in this area that consult over video chat, so if you find yourself spiralling down, please reach out to me and I will put you in touch with some that can help guide you.

Good luck friend.
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Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby wiesiek on Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:24 am

Thank You B.C.
I will check the link later.
So far, I`m goin`to have meeting with Zen Master next week, he just returned from Korea after 100 days of mediation practice.
and
week later Chief of Korean`s Zen will pay a visit in our Zendo in Krakow, it will be the next chance to discuss my case.

In mean time I allow Ancestor Spirits to guide me, in Sunday I may jump into something new, `cause have meeting with my former GF /now THE Shaman full time -devil- O:) -shrug- /

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W
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Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby wiesiek on Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:27 am

BonesCom
Thx again,
Now, I`m reading 2nd part- "dark night" /sofar, briefly jumped over rest of it/
I would say, that my experience is somehow different. I mean - seems to me that I get taste of described "stages"/levels at once - during 4 weeks directly after "ritual".
I had some experience in meditation, Previously,,, but no so deep. Last20 year, or so, I was more involved in dynamic forms of qigong.
During my practice I experienced different and similar "openings" many times; lo level and short time, but pretty often.
However, it didn`t prepared me for this ride. -dropjaw-
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Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby BonesCom on Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:51 am

It's great you're talking to someone, just be aware that traditionally Zen doesn't explicitly talk about these things and often the student is left to just sit with it.
But your experience might be different.

A&P manifests in a truly broad range of experiences, so don't expect it to match up directly to what was described in that link.
To get a feeling for how much it can differ you can look at this link:
https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discus ... ory/118172

You don't have to have a formal meditation practice to pass the A&P, it can happen during a range of activities and even just spontaneously.
It can happen on psychedelics also.

If you have had this multiple times then it is possible you have crossed it multiple times, that is not uncommon.

In fact if you have crossed this a few times, then that makes the other possible explanation somewhat more likely.

That would be that you have entered the stream and attained the first stage of the Theravadan four path model of awakening.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sot%C4%81panna

Distinguishing the two possibilities will be a question of time.
In the first case you can expect to progress and even cycle through the dukkha nanas (Knowledges of suffering; AKA the dark night of the soul).
In the second cases you might be a little bit all over the place for a while but upon settling down you will experience a significant decrease in the amount existential suffering you experience.

This stuff might sound fanciful, but many thousands of people have progressed through these stages and entered the stream.
In April a good friend of mine did and he has since attained the second path in this model.

Each stage is characterised by predictable changes in experience both on and off the cushion.

If you have attained stream entry you may have access to at least the first four jhana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism
But you won't be able to shoot rainbows out your arse quite yet :)

Feel free to PM me, this stuff is pretty normal for me :)

Take care and make sure your wood is chopped and your laundry is folded
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Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby everything on Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:38 pm

on the DT and handle, good viz, and thanks.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby wiesiek on Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:07 am

@BonesCom
funny, I found all info in my Teacher book Tenga Rinpoche "Tantras and Routes of Buddhism" . I wasn`t able to read it 20 years ago.

and
colors/emotions transformation trainings are very helpful in this time of practice.
my daily routine :
6am-breathing and qigong, 6pm circle walkin`, evening -breathing and Great Enlightenment Meditation
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Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby edededed on Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:46 pm

Great source, Bones - as the author writes, much Zen practice traditionally is without explanation, except for the initial instructions.
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Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby BonesCom on Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:16 am

@wiesiek I have to admit I don't know the equivalent map of experiences in Tibetan lineages. I know they have them, I just don't know them.

I'm glad you found some info though. It sounds like you're doing fine!

@edededed I've definitely found benefit in a zazen type practice at different times, but it would be a super rough introduction I feel.
One aspect my lineage emphasises is being aware of the experience of subtle dullness.
This is not related to sleepiness but more a lack of acuity while sitting. It's very easy for a lot of people to simply sit in this dull state (it is very pleasant) and then wonder why they are not getting the benefits for the practice they expect.
I'd suggest a lot of Zen practitioners never get past that state.
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Re: Side effects of the deep breathings

Postby wiesiek on Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:03 am

My experience with the Zen is different, in the terms of two directions communication things :)
However my, is Korean branch, not Jap., so maybe it is the factor...
My Tibetan Teacher , Vajara Master , changed dimension couple years ago,
BUT
I have some of His writings about The Way /Yana / possibility :
Śravakayana, - kinda of "standard" .
Praktykeabuddhayana, - lookin` for the Way alone.
Bodhisattvayana, - now i`t`s my too...
Vajarayana, - Tantras Buddhist Way with four levels of dealing with sufferings , where Kirya Yoga Tantra is designed for lo level of the suffer, Anuttara Yoga Tantra /Mother and Father/with their "specific" techniques is for the highest levels.
Speakin` so,
Practicing, let`s say Bodhisattva Way I`m not limited to only "their way of doing things",
I can use some of Anuttara Yoga Tantra tools too.
In fact, for all the kind of [/i]"Yanas"[i], "ways of doing things" /techniques are mixed/interchangeable to the some extinct,
word : "level" can be used, of course.

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