rethinking TCMA

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

rethinking TCMA

Postby rojcewiczj on Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:03 pm

Lately I have been rethinking my TCMA.

For the past few years I have been focused on gaining grappling skills, mainly through grappling bouts with BJJ and Greco people. I found that, while
I could do decently well in that environment and certainly apply the fundamental fitness/body control from m TCMA practice, there was something not quite right about trying to utilize TCMA in a pure grappling environment.

So lately I have been rethinking my TCMA so as to be founded on the concept of zero-distance striking. What I mean is that, instead of utilizing pulling and pushing, I utilize whole-body striking power from zero-distance to create the effect associated with being pulled or pushed, mainly off-balancing the opponent. To an onlooker whole-body striking power from zero-distance looks like a powerful push or pull, but to the one doing the action, the difference is "striking" (pun intended).

I think the difference in these approaches is testified to the differentiation of TCMA's like taiji, xingyi , bagua etc. from a Shuai Jiao as a singular discipline. While TCMA's have techniques that can throw an opponent down, it seems that the principle energy is always like a whole-body strike.

Any thoughts on this subject would be welcome!.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby johnwang on Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:14 pm

Even zero-distance striking is still 1 point contact. 1 point contact can only move your opponent. 2 or 3 points contact can take your opponent down and that will require "leg skill". Since zero-distance striking has nothing to do with "leg skill", it's far from throwing skill.

The striking (or pushing) is linear motion. The throwing is circular motion.

Leg skill include:

1. 切(Qie) - Front cut,
2. 刀(Dao) – Knife hook,
3. 合(He) - Inner hook,
4. 削(Xiao) – Outer hook,
5. 踢(Ti) - Sweep,
6. 撩(Liao) - Back kick,
7. 彈(Tan) – Leg spring,
8. 挑(Tiao) – Leg lift,
9. 撮(Cuo) - Scooping kick,
10. 纏(Chan) - Leg twist,
11. ...
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby rojcewiczj on Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:56 pm

I can see how utilizing multiple points is essential for throwing, but that being said, I think its more fundamental to first get away from muscularly pushing or pulling on our opponent in order to produce force, but rather to strike with whole-body force from zero-distance. If this whole body strike acts on multiple points then you may produce a throw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uejJe0bI_XM
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby johnwang on Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:18 pm

In your clip, he uses left leg skill "scoop kick".



You are talking about "捅(Tong) - Striking push".



IMO, the bulldozer speed (constant speed) is more suitable for throwing. It's better to guide your opponent's body all the way down to the ground without losing the contact.

Last edited by johnwang on Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby rojcewiczj on Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:22 pm

Yes, that video is a good example of what I'm talking about. It seems to me that manifesting that sort of force is very important for TCMA, where striking is not abandoned in grappling range, but rather re-focused towards breaking the opponents balance.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby johnwang on Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:05 pm

rojcewiczj wrote:striking is not abandoned in grappling range, ...

Striking can increase the distance between you and your opponent. In wrestling, you want to be as close to your opponent's body as possible. To punch/push your opponent away is a bad idea. You lose control on your opponent's body right at that moment.

You should keep your friends close, but your enemy closer. When you punch/push your opponent away, the fight is not over yet. You need to finish it since you have started it.

How will you finish a fight?

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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby rojcewiczj on Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:25 pm

I don't mean to say that you should knock your opponent away from you.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby johnwang on Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:35 pm

rojcewiczj wrote:I don't mean to say that you should knock your opponent away from you.

What's your plan to end the fight?

Unless your knock/push can finish the fight, if you knock/push your opponent away, you will lose your chance to finish him such as knock/choke him out.

Did he finish the fight in your clip?

Last edited by johnwang on Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby rojcewiczj on Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:43 pm

you follow them.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby johnwang on Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:31 pm

The sticky, follow is the opposite of the punch. Is Taiji a striking art, or wrestling art? It can be very confused.

How to mix the sticky, follow, and punch/push to achieve effective finish move can be an interested discussion.
Last edited by johnwang on Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby wiesiek on Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:07 am

don`t be locked in one direction, change punch into push/pull accordingly to the situation.
Flexible mind and body is the key.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby marvin8 on Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:49 am

wiesiek wrote:don`t be locked in one direction, change punch into push/pull accordingly to the situation.
Flexible mind and body is the key.

Yes, learn skills and do what's appropriate in the different ranges:

Sonny Brown
Published on Feb 12, 2018

A study & analysis of the MMA Takedowns of Fedor Emelianenko. Due to Fedors background in Judo & Sambo his takedown game was centred around the upper body clinch and consisted of outside trips, inside leg trips, knee blocks, hip toss and other variations.
This breakdown also looks at his entries into the clinch and the critical aspect of off-balancing that allowed all the takedowns to seem almost effortless.
Overall I highlight the 3 main clinch entries, the main takedowns and the main principles that Fedor used to achieve all these and the lessons that can be learned from his skills:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft2IS-3Xyac
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby rojcewiczj on Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:03 am

A simple strategy is to move the body continuously forward. When the hands are stopped or diverted you don't stop moving in with your body, ending with a whole-body strike with your shoulder or side. Meaning you strike as you close the gap but you never stop moving your body in order to strike. practically speaking, when the body stops, the power stops, so I find it helpful to allow for your own hands or feet to be blocked or stopped, continuing to rush in with the body no matter what. Fedor seems to do this often. In Taiji terms, its like a Kao is always there at the termination of every technique.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby KEND on Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:59 pm

If you have real TCC fajin short power striking should not be an issue, the infamous one inch punch should become the no inch punch
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby suckinlhbf on Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:21 pm

How to mix the sticky, follow, and punch/push to achieve effective finish move can be an interested discussion


It is exactly what it needs to execute a zero distance punch. Stick, follow, and get the position that the opponent is stuck. Then do the punch. The body has to be able to completely relax, then drop and tighten at a very short interval. Can try put one hand straight against the wall, the other hand straight in an opposite direction, and punch against the air. See how do you feel on the hand against the wall.
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