rethinking TCMA

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby johnwang on Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:47 pm

suckinlhbf wrote:
How to mix the sticky, follow, and punch/push to achieve effective finish move can be an interested discussion

It is exactly what it needs to execute a zero distance punch. Stick, follow, and get the position that the opponent is stuck. Then do the punch. The body has to be able to completely relax, then drop and tighten at a very short interval. Can try put one hand straight against the wall, the other hand straight in an opposite direction, and punch against the air. See how do you feel on the hand against the wall.

I still don't understand your "plan" to finish the fight. Will it be better to use one arm to control your opponent's head (behind his head) while use your other arm to keep punching until he is out? Will that plan be better than the zero distance punch?

In the following distance, which distance can generate the most power?

1. 0 distance.
2. 1 foot distance.
3. 2 feet distance.

IMO, 3 > 2 > 1
Last edited by johnwang on Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby suckinlhbf on Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:04 pm

Will that plan be better than the zero distance punch

It takes time to punch from a one foot distance, and it takes more time for a two feet distance. The opponent is moving fast to avoid punches and contacts. He could have been gone when the punch gets there. Even the punch can land on the body, it may slip and he doesn't really get hurt. The zero distance punch can stick more power into the body especially when it goes with the correct intent. The other option of finishing is to stick the opponent against the wall so he can't move then punch him to finish.

The old master said only punch when you touch.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby dspyrido on Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:20 pm

Zero distance punch makes no sense. No one punches the limbs of a trained opponent so what's left for zero distance is the head and torso. At that point no one would allow anyone to walk up, place a fist and strike. Really we are talking a "bit of a distance in striking". This I have found useful when clinch fighting is allowed but is a no no in grappling only.

OTOH are we talking about arms touch-contact to uproot through the opponents bones so that it constantly off balances the opponent? If so then yes it's a great method used to make it hard to be thrown & if pulled off becomes really easy to trip, sweep of throw them. I see this as good "internal" arts stuff that leaves self aware "external" guys saying "how did you do that?". Note the self aware part. I've had younger guys get more annoyed and commit more and more effort & balance in frustration which means it works even better.

The weakness to this touch hand play? Overwhelm the hands, disconnect and grab the torso or head, take a leg etc. So good touch hands skills still need good "other stuff skills".
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby windwalker on Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:31 pm

In the following distance, which distance can generate the most power?

1. 0 distance.
2. 1 foot distance.
3. 2 feet distance.

IMO, 3 > 2 > 1


Kind of misses the point IMO

acceleration is used to unify "timing" /allowing a mass to arrive at a certain point in time.

ie how much distance does one need to accelerate a mass to produce a force.

"different methods are used to accelerate"

zero distance, describes a way the body has been trained to be unified
move as one unit needing less time or distance to be unified able to express its net torque at contact
often called whole body force.

The old master said only punch when you touch.


very correct although the way a punch is thought of might be confusing.
We use the word release...at touch as in releasing an arrow.
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:02 pm

I prefer one foot over zero or two. Move the body in first, then strike using that entire mass. If they are moving towards you, even better. Move back with them, anchor yourself with your lower body in a wedge-like shape and use that entire mass and the ground to pierce right through them.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby johnwang on Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:38 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I prefer one foot over zero or two. Move the body in first, then strike using that entire mass. If they are moving towards you, even better. Move back with them, anchor yourself with your lower body in a wedge-like shape and use that entire mass and the ground to pierce right through them.

Agree!

If I can get my opponent into a head lock, when I use my other hand to uppercut his chin, I prefer to have 1 foot distance than to have 0 distance.

I'm still allergy to "push".
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby MaartenSFS on Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:49 pm

Exactly. It's still possible to produce a lot of power from acceleration at one foot. Most of the zero distance stuff from Taijiquan is how to Fajin when throwing or when applying Qinna.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby johnwang on Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:21 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:Exactly. It's still possible to produce a lot of power from acceleration at one foot. Most of the zero distance stuff from Taijiquan is how to Fajin when throwing or when applying Qinna.

In wrestling, the 0 distance punch is used either to break apart a grip, or to shake your opponent's body. It's not used to hurt your opponent.
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Re: rethinking TCMA

Postby suckinlhbf on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:44 am

I prefer one foot over zero or two


With a goal to develop zero distance punch will enable a powerful punch at a short distance. The distance for acceleration can get shorter and shorter from two feet to one foot to 6 inches to..... Then can use it in a punch, throw, qinna, lock...etc. Explosive body twist in a head lock will hurt.
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