Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby Trick on Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:36 am

Bao wrote:Working as a police officer or security guard you need to handle all kinds of environments and seldom have the luxury of comfy mats. It’s not sports we are discussing here.
Isn’t the goal in shuai jiao to be the one still standing ? If I allow myself to go back to Swedish police and hand to hand “combat” training, I think that Durewalls-JJ was tried...now that’s a quite different JJ than GJJ in many ways....
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby GrahamB on Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:51 am

Trick- small personal request please stop saying GJJ. :) It's a weird subset of BJJ that is involved with online belt promotion, no real hard rolling and self defence obsession. Sure not all GJJ is like that, but the martial art is called BJJ for a reason.
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby johnwang on Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:43 am

Bao wrote:It’s not sports we are discussing here.

When you use right leg to spring your opponent's left leg back and press his left shoulder down at the same time, you will raise your right knee to meet his face. This kind of knee strike (finish strategy) to the face is not sport at all.

To push your opponent away, or to throw your opponent down is not the end of a fight. Only valid "finish strategy" can end a fight.

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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby GrahamB on Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:58 am

Yeah but SPORTS!!!!
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby Trick on Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:38 am

GrahamB wrote:Trick- small personal request please stop saying GJJ. :) It's a weird subset of BJJ that is involved with online belt promotion, no real hard rolling and self defence obsession. Sure not all GJJ is like that, but the martial art is called BJJ for a reason.

ok i see,, .so GJJ(GracieJJ) is not the same as what you guys call BJJ....... Anyway, when you yourself start your own JJ, we can call it GJJ ? or maybe GrahameB-JJ, or GBJJ........,,,,,,,,OK, i stop now 8-)
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby GrahamB on Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:11 am

I think GJJ is a copyrighted name owned by one branch of the Gracie family.

Everybody else calls it BJJ.
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby johnwang on Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:21 pm

Bao wrote:Working as a police officer or security guard you need to handle all kinds of environments and seldom have the luxury of comfy mats. It’s not sports we are discussing here.

The day when kick, punch, lock, and follow up striking (finish strategy) were added into SC, the SC had been evolved into combat SC (CSC, or CC), it was no longer "sport" any more.

To drop your knee into your opponent's groin is not allowed in any "sport".



To kick your opponent's head when he is on the ground (at 0.17) also is not allowed in any sport.

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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby marvin8 on Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:58 pm

Bao wrote:
johnwang wrote:If he can add in the "leg skill" and use his leg to spring his opponent's leg off the ground, the result will be much better. If he can force his opponent to only stand on one leg, his opponent's balance will be weaker.


Not necessary. If you understand pressure linking alignment and using leverage it’s not necessary to have an opponent standing on one leg to have great control. Makes no difference really. It’s just another method or another kind of technique.

That's what Alain demonstrates here. Also, there may be a difference in position, control and vulnerability to counters when using "leg skill."

aikiproductions
Mar 13, 2013

Restrain, control, and take people outside with techniques specific to bouncers, security professionals and law enforcement. Hapkido, safety, and security expert Alain Burrese teaches how to use joint locks and pain compliant techniques to control and move people. Burrese instructs on how to make your joint locks, holds, and take downs more effective when working positions that require you to go "hands on." Everyone who might need to control others needs to learn the techniques Alain teaches in this program. Additionally, even though designed for law enforcement and security professionals, this DVD set is also an invaluable tool for any martial artist who wants to make joint-locking techniques street effective:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqHYUPK5z0Q

At 2:05, Alain says a problem with trying to control the opponent with your hand on his shoulder area rather than the tricep/elbow area is the opponent can stand up and it's not creating any pain:

Image

Paul and Jon address entering and applying the snake form against an opponent who retracts their punches at range.

Xing Yi Academy
Jan 25, 2016

Paul and Jon (Senior Xing Yi Instructors) have an honest and open, no holds barred discussion on She Xing (Snake strategy/character) and some techniques that can be against a short sharp Jab, often used in other styles such as boxing.

They look at how to move into binds and grapples from jab range, as well as distraction techniques and Xing yi's over arching concept of 'Bind and Strike' (Niǔ dǎ 扭打):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AamMceZB6Go

johnwang wrote:
Bao wrote:Working as a police officer or security guard you need to handle all kinds of environments and seldom have the luxury of comfy mats. It’s not sports we are discussing here.

The day when kick, punch, lock, and follow up striking (finish strategy) were added into SC, the SC had been evolved into combat SC (CSC, or CC), it was no longer "sport" any more.

To drop your knee into your opponent's groin is not allowed in any "sport".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0F9VhT ... e=youtu.be

To kick your opponent's head when he is on the ground (at 0.17) also is not allowed in any sport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl5ksRjRWsE

In police officer or security guard work, dropping a knee into your opponent's groin or kicking your opponent's head is generally "not allowed" because of lawsuits, public perception, etc.
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby Bao on Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:41 pm

Good post Marvin. Nice to see that someone gets what I try to get through.

GrahamB wrote:Bao, you know there are two types of SJ. One is sport one is not, er,... right?


Ha ha, yes. Of course I know. ;D

But I want to make sure we get away from the sports mindset. “He should have done this, he should have done that.” Easy to say. Who to say that he should have the same possibilities as he was on the mat? Easy when you don’t consider circumstances and environment.
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby dspyrido on Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:34 pm

You realise that "leg skills" work both ways and are just another tool to add to the arsenal of weapons? This applies to both sports and for realz. E.g that guy getting locked up can also step in driving the shoulder and sweep or at least loosen things up enough to escape.

Learning the legs for chin-na or SJ is not just about attacking but augmenting other moves that support escapes/counters. Learning this in sports just gives it a more testable & dynamic framework to be better able to apply in reality. Practising with compliant partners is a good way to refine it. The two should just be nice compliments to each other.

Also Alain Burrese video - It will work well for most people but holding someone's jaw in reality to help control them is a risky move. Better to apply control on the cranium and ear. Works in sport and reality.

A final point - most people won't roll to the ground but some trained grapplers know how to do this. If their face is heading down they have a chance to roll in and grab the inside ankle of the attackers leg. It's a reversal move that unless the attacker knows how to roll they will end up face planting.
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby johnwang on Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:40 pm

dspyrido wrote:A final point - most people won't roll to the ground but some trained grapplers know how to do this. If their face is heading down they have a chance to roll in and grab the inside ankle of the attackers leg. It's a reversal move that unless the attacker knows how to roll they will end up face planting.

When you spring your opponent's leg, if you use downward pressing (instead of forward lifting), it will be hard for your opponent to roll.

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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:41 pm

That guys from the hard streets of the city of churches it must work
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby C.J.W. on Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:34 pm

While I'm glad to hear that he finds Aikido, Taiji, and Xingyi useful in his career as a police officer, based on the stylistic comparisons in the article, it seems to me that his understanding of IMA still remains at a very technique-based and somewhat superficial level.

Quite black-belt-magazine-ish if you ask me. :)
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby GrahamB on Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:51 am

Shots fired!
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Re: Aikido, Taijiuan, XingYi IRL

Postby wiesiek on Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:10 am

GrahamB wrote:I think GJJ is a copyrighted name owned by one branch of the Gracie family.

Everybody else calls it BJJ.


so
is there ANY significant difference, between those two clones of cruelly overweighted by ne waza Brazilians style of JJ?
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