Internal punch

[dspyrido]

When someone does a TC form most people familiar with cma will comfortably say "that's TC". But as soon as it get's in an arena it's formless. Except when it looks like sanda.

People who train in CIMAs likely know how to do a cross, jab, upper cut, and hook internally.

How does someone cross, jab, upper cut & hook "internally"? How is it different to "externally"?

[robert]

How does someone cross, jab, upper cut & hook "internally"? How is it different to "externally"?

The main power generation is from the dantian (kua/yao). Covered hand punch in Chen taiji is basically a right cross, that is to say, the right foot is back and the right hand strikes.

[MaartenSFS]

It really isn't... The off-hand traps. It's much closer range.
Xingyiquan's Paoquan is a lot more similar, but then you have that zigzag footwork and the covering off-hand as well, which is also a type of trapping. In any case, the way that they are used and the combinations that they are used with other techniques in no way look like boxing. Not even close. Now perhaps Changquan or Shaolinquan does but I have no experience with those.

[LaoDan]

I do not know why people focus on the strike being from 1 or 3 inches, when the important thing is that the power is generated without a big windup and without relying on momentum. One trains this way (3” and 1”) to develop the power generation mechanism, but it should not matter how far away one is in actual applications. If one is in contact with an opponent’s arm, for example, and has an opening to strike, then striking without requiring a windup is beneficial. Who cares if it ends up being from a foot away, as long as one can just shoot out their power without needing to wind up (or cocking the fist...)?

I discuss some of this in my article:
http://slantedflying.com/force-from-structure-vs-acceleration-in-taijiquan/

[MaartenSFS]

+1

[robert]

It really isn't... The off-hand traps. It's much closer range.
Xingyiquan's Paoquan is a lot more similar, but then you have that zigzag footwork and the covering off-hand as well, which is also a type of trapping.

I guess that depends on if your interest is in technique or body mechanics. I mentioned Chen taiji and Covered hand fist. What I've been taught in Chen taiji is that there a many variations on a given application and it's very unlikely an opponent will conform to some given technique. I think part of the point of Chen Ziqiang arranging Muay Thai fights with his coaches (Wang Yan and others) was to demonstrate that Chen taijiquan is adaptable. You can take it outside the Chen ruleset/format and use it within Muay Thai's ruleset/format.

[MaartenSFS]

My interest is in both, without which we could call it Sanda with Taiji mechanics or Sanda with Taiji throws or whatever. It won't be Taijiquan, though. It will be a combination of them. Not that that's a bad thing. Let's just call it what it is, though. I agree that there are many variations, but trapping is an integral part of most, if not all, CMA that itself has many variations. If I don't see it then it's Sanda. The trapping can be anything from a brush to the arm to a Qinna grip. The point is that both hands should always be doing something. Is a block really a block in Taijiquan? It's a set up or a hooking motion.

Even with boxing gloves on all of this is doable, except for the finer small-joint manipulations and eye gouges, which we shouldn't do to anyone but our worst enemies anyways. The real reason that Chenjiagou passes this off as Taijiquan is that if they win there will be people that say it isn't Taijiquan but they still won and got face. If they lose they can say that this wasn't the true Taijiquan and that remains hidden. If they used real Taijiquan and lost then they would lose all of the face. The only time that they used real Taijiquan was in those bouts where it was totally rigged in Chen Ziqiangs or Wang Zhanjun's favour and they DESTROYED their students, essentially. Otherwise Chen Ziqiang and Wang Zhanjun would have faced each other!

I still think that both of those guys have the real deal, but it will never be taught to us no matter how much money we throw at them. Family trade secrets... I'm happy that I learned everything that a non-famous teacher could teach me. Well, there was too much to learn, so I learned as much as I could absorb before leaving China, but that was my choice, not him withholding. And he never charged me a penny!

[dspyrido]

The main power generation is from the dantian (kua/yao).

And you can see something that is by definition internal which put another way is hidden?

Also to add - how does dantien (kua/yao ... you can also throw in fascia & chi while we are at it to obfuscate the matter further) translate into actual power generation? Is it a form of battery that is strapped onto the moving delivery mechanism (eg arm or other bows) or is this some form of electrical like impulse?

Either way if this untapped power source is so useful then there should be no problem using it in an arena or if that is not the preferred method then just demonstrating it to a hulking mma fighter who would be more than interested in picking up a new tactic to take to the arena.

[windwalker]

how you can move to set-up your opponent like he was standing still is the real kung fu
not this one

very true
gotta watch out for the old guys


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HJiOc-qNik

[wingchun]

This is very similar compression mechanics to the Original posted video in my opinion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFH6gzxzgmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJKg3QkUngE

[MaartenSFS]

how you can move to set-up your opponent like he was standing still is the real kung fu
not this one

very true
gotta watch out for the old guys


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HJiOc-qNik

LOVE that video!

[MaartenSFS]

This is very similar compression mechanics to the Original posted video in my opinion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFH6gzxzgmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJKg3QkUngE

I hope this is a joke. Your video in the OP was something that had the potential to be practical in fighting. These videos make a mockery of CMA. You can't possible believe this shite...

[robert]

And you can see something that is by definition internal which put another way is hidden?

In xingyiquan there are three levels of jin - obvious (ming), hidden (an), and mysterious (hua). In Chen taiji they say you start with large circles and refine them into small circles. I'm not aware of anyone who hasn't trained who just does mysterious jin or small circles. In order to use this type of body movement you need to be loose and relaxed and there are other attributes that exclude it as well.

Also to add - how does dantien (kua/yao ... you can also throw in fascia & chi while we are at it to obfuscate the matter further) translate into actual power generation? Is it a form of battery that is strapped onto the moving delivery mechanism (eg arm or other bows) or is this some form of electrical like impulse?

What I'm talking about is body mechanics. Since you're trolling you can search the forum - there have been plenty of discussions about this. The only way someone will understand it is if they find a good teacher and spend years training.

[MaartenSFS]

Talking sense is not the same thing as trolling...

[robert]

Talking sense is not the same thing as trolling...

Is it a form of battery that is strapped onto the moving delivery mechanism (eg arm or other bows) or is this some form of electrical like impulse?

You think that is a sensible question?