Solar Plexus vs Tan Tien

[bigphatwong]

Round 1... DING! (j/k )

Forgive me if this is kind of a chi-headed question, but I am reminded of a post by P. Andrews emphasizing being led by the solar plexus instead of the lower tan tien. I've been playing with this concept a lot in my Hsing-i, and find that my movements are lighter and more effortless than they have been ... not as stuck in the physical. I'm also finding it easier to link up my mind with what I'm doing, particularly when I am tired or physically/emotionally zapped for whatever reason (I struggle with anxiety issues, and the SP area has always been the most challenging for me to relax)

And, as an added boner ... what are the health/martial benefits of "rooting up" or drawing power from the sky as opposed to from the ground?

Experiences, insights or quips?

[Swede]

I won't speak for them, but I believe Systema tends to work more with the solar plexus as center instead of dan tian. If, RobP, Ian, and Teo don't chime in on this one, try sending them PM's.

[mixjourneyman]

Just don't press forward on your solar plexus the way your would on your dan tien at the end of pi, or you might get a bit of an ouchie

[Bao]

I like the Indian term "hara", which is the center of the body according to Indian tradition. But I guess solar plexus is good as well.

The three dan tian are places inside the body. Some people have strange approaches to the term "dan tian", so personally I don't use it very much. I think it is better to speak about a more visible and physical center, then there will be not as much confusion.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

the center is the dan tien. It is also the Hara, the center of gravity on most everyone and as well it is where the large arteries split and feed the legs blood. The central dan tien is located roughly at teh solar plexus and the upper dan tien being located at the crown of your head. these are three celestial centers of the human body where there is an abundance of elan vital and it is distributed throughout via the networks and channels as they are.

in other words, in spite of our imagining it while we meditate in standing post, it is a physically real part of our bodies that represents all of the above and the only make believe is us envisioning it as a glowing chi ball when in fact it is a blood soaked network of innards all hard at work to keep you upright.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

what i mean is, your center of gravity is located at the lower dan tien not the middle or upper.

moving chi between the centers is how you get your rising, falling energies, light skills, heavy skills etc etc.

lower dan tien is about 1-2 inches below your belly button and about 3 inches inside of you located pretty much where your arteries split.

[Darthwing Teorist]

I won't speak for them, but I believe Systema tends to work more with the solar plexus as center instead of dan tian. If, RobP, Ian, and Teo don't chime in on this one, try sending them PM's.

Well, in my understanding, due to the original religions there, the Russians considered that the body had 2 centers: the solar plexus and the lunar plexus (IME the Dan Tien). They evolve around each other, which is one of the reasons that Systema has a particular spinal work and figure 8 paths in most of the movements. What is interesting and this applies to martial arts, is that the body's center of gravity is said to be placed somewhere between these two extremes: at rest and when the body shortens, the center is in the lunar plexus, when it extends, it is in the solar plexus. From a physical point of view to me this makes sense as we are not a solid block, but a body made of moving parts that constantly change their relationship to one another.

There is no concept of Chi in Systema, but breath would be the closest thing. However, we are not directed to particularly fill one plexus or another, probably due to the fact that breathing in Systema has to be very adaptable. But this is another topic.

[kshurika]

"Hara" is a Japanese term. If you want to know everything about it, read Karlfried Graf vonDurckheim's "Hara, the Vital Center of Man". It's a book of the most profound brilliance (or brilliant profundity). The word for it in yoga anatomy is "kanda" (the bulb). Yogis regard it as the storehouse of half of a person's inner prana (Sanskrit equivalent of "chi"). The other half is held in "hrit padma" (heart lotus), which corresponds roughly with the solar plexus.

My Xingyi teacher told me just recently to keep the chest up and forward, not to let it collapse. This is pretty much what I tell my students when practicing yogasana or pranayama.

[Walk the Torque]

Round 1... DING! (j/k )

Forgive me if this is kind of a chi-headed question, but I am reminded of a post by P. Andrews emphasizing being led by the solar plexus instead of the lower tan tien. I've been playing with this concept a lot in my Hsing-i, and find that my movements are lighter and more effortless than they have been ... not as stuck in the physical. I'm also finding it easier to link up my mind with what I'm doing, particularly when I am tired or physically/emotionally zapped for whatever reason (I struggle with anxiety issues, and the SP area has always been the most challenging for me to relax)

And, as an added boner ... what are the health/martial benefits of "rooting up" or drawing power from the sky as opposed to from the ground?

Experiences, insights or quips?

Hi Bigphatwong,

I have stumbled across this one also and I know what your saying re lighter movement etc. I think it has something to do with engaging Trans Ab, inter costals (adding stability) and also adding a bit of balance to the usage of the muscles in the torso. I go along with the idea that there are three dantien and that they can be intergrated to great effect. Having said this though, starting or "being led" from the solor plexus is ok as long as the energy goes downward as well as the hands.

I use tend to use these things a little like remedial medicine; if I get too flighty and hyped up I conclude that I have let the energy rise too much and therefore sink intent to the lower dantien till I feel settled enough.

But I seem to be getting alot out of Using the middle dantein as a centre.

[JAB]

What are you asking bro? About the center of gravity for the body, or qi shit?
If it is qi shit, not sure what you are asking.
In regards to the "Dan Tien" in martial reference:
The body has three axis' and they all meet in the area often referred to as the "Dan Tien." Has nothing, NOTHING to do with qi, but as stated earlier, everything to do with the physical center of your body.
Jake

[Bao]

"Hara" is a Japanese term.

Sorry, of course it is, my mistake. Maybe I made a connection between meditation and yoga. Heck I don't know why I got the idea it was an indian term.

[GrahamB]

P. Andrews is my XingYi brother - a very fine XY practitioner too. He stopped posting here after y'all started hating on him. Seems like some of you guys were interested in what he was saying though. I'll try and coax him back to post on this thread...

[bruce]

P. Andrews is my XingYi brother - a very fine XY practitioner too. He stopped posting here after y'all started hating on him. Seems like some of you guys were interested in what he was saying though. I'll try and coax him back to post on this thread...

please do. i met him and found he has some good insites going on with his hsing i practice.

[bigphatwong]

Graham,
that'd be cool, I enjoyed his posts as well.

Jake,
mostly what I'm getting at is the energetic aspect of the mind leading the body. So yeah, I guess it is some "qi shit" if you will. Don't tase me, bro!

[everything]

The Indian term you're probably thinking of is chakra. The heart center chakra seems to correspond to the middle dantian, somewhere around the solar plexus.

Without getting into "qi shit" too much, if you put your intent higher, it seems natural you'd feel "lighter on your feet". If you put your intent lower and feel you're "sinking", you probably will feel more "rooted".

Qi shit tangent: I would like to know more on "sinking qi to dantian" in general. Yoga does not seem to place particular emphasis on this chakra.