Train partial form for "health"

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Train partial form for "health"

Postby johnwang on Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:31 pm

I try to replace my 3 miles running by non-stop long sequence drills for "health".

I find 12 long sequence drills about 10 moves of each. Repeat each drills 20 times non-stop. This will give me 12 x 10 x 20 = 2,400 moves. If I do it non-stop, the result can be the same as my 3 miles running.

What's your opinion about this training method for "health"?
Last edited by johnwang on Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby windwalker on Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:54 pm

you may not realize it all your clips are set at "private" :P

happy holidays :)
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby johnwang on Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:28 pm

windwalker wrote:you may not realize it all your clips are set at "private" :P

happy holidays :)

My clips are not important. Instead of training your form and stop, if you train your form over and over non-stop, you should have the same benefit as you train from the 3 miles running.

Just wonder if anybody has used this approach or not.
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:39 pm

Well at the end of one vigorous repetition of the sabre form I'm working on my heart is in a good range for cardio, but the form is short, so I repeat it four or five times to get a light cardio workout in.
Last edited by oragami_itto on Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby Overlord on Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:31 pm

I do forms, pad work, bag work, jogging, skipping rope and Tyre jumping separately.
-saber-


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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby Subitai on Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:25 pm

johnwang wrote:I try to replace my 3 miles running by non-stop long sequence drills for "health".

I find 12 long sequence drills about 10 moves of each. Repeat each drills 20 times non-stop. This will give me 12 x 10 x 20 = 2,400 moves. If I do it non-stop, the result can be the same as my 3 miles running.

What's your opinion about this training method for "health"?


I think it's a good idea John...

I'd advise that you pay attention to your heart rate and pace yourself according to whatever your goals are for your current age.

Chiu Wai sigung would talk about listening to your heart especially after you past 45. It's good to challenge yourself, it's good to go hard even...but you have to not loose your breath control (whatever your training) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Especially NOT so that you feel OUT OF CONTROL for example and FEEL your heart pumping out of your chest or that feeling as if your heart were in your throat, i.e. VEINS bulging or popping out.

Since i'm past 45 now, I kinda get where you're coming from...but in circuit training.

** I feel it's best to have a base movement that is slightly above walking...For example, it can be: 1) a light run 2) jumping jacks 3) jump rope ect. The point of this is to have my resting stage under duress. So i'm used to getting my wind back from something other than just walking it off.

1st warm up drills and stretch

Start with a light run 3 mins

- warm up further throwing combinations of kicks, sweeps and punches ... keep this up till I'm just about to loose my breath control then,

back to light run or Jumping jacks 1 min to 3 mins depends on how I feel.

- Hit a bag: keep this up till i'm just about to loose my breath control then

Back to light run or jumping rope 1 min to 3 mins depends on how I feel.

- Wrestling sit outs and back spins on a ball ... keep this up till I'm just about to loose my breath control then,

Back to a light run or Squat Thrusts 1 min to 3 mins depends on how I feel.

- You can insert as many forms as you want to

back to light run or Jumping jacks 1 min to 3 mins depends on how I feel.

---- And keep this up as long you want, adding more and more to your circuit as needed.

= Last thing I always do in a session like this is to train mental concentration. I should be always close to winded or gassed and that's when I have to recall what it feels like to take "A liver shot" for example or to "just have stood up by the referee after 6 mins of wrestling". How I (or you) want to rest so badly at that very moment but you can't. I used to do this allot when I was less than 45 but now i'm not complete gassed anymore.

--- Anyway at this stage, just when you're feeling you can't even think. That's when you have to throw your best combinations or finishing moves... and you have to think about setting them up or visualize yourself making them work.

A) If it was a take down for example...then try to do at least 10 of them. One off a stiff arm, one after he attempts a shot and you sprawl and come right back with a double. ...ect ect.

or

B) if it's a strike combination for example, You notice your opponent is getting tired too and is keeping his hands low... and you have a great 3 to 5 punch combination to finish him off . You're tired but you have to do it. 10 X s

C) ect ect.
Last edited by Subitai on Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:00 am

I think that it's a great idea, but I agree with Subitai's warning.. When I used to do Taijiquan I did the 35 minute slow form three times in a row and the fast 15 minute form another three times. Holy shit was that exhausting. Now I do sets of one, two and three sabre drills over and over again. The effect is similar, but it is much more practical for combat. The Taijiquan forms were very "comfortable", though, despite the low movements, but my knees feel a lot better since I stopped.
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby marvin8 on Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:38 am

johnwang wrote:I try to replace my 3 miles running by non-stop long sequence drills for "health".

I find 12 long sequence drills about 10 moves of each. Repeat each drills 20 times non-stop. This will give me 12 x 10 x 20 = 2,400 moves. If I do it non-stop, the result can be the same as my 3 miles running.

What's your opinion about this training method for "health"?

Research shows there are more health benefits in doing both LSD (long slow distance cardio) and HIIT (high intensity interval training) provided you are healthy. Self defense often requires explosiveness which HIIT helps condition one for. For example, one might do two days of HIIT at 70% - 85% max heart rate.

Excerpts from "Quality over quantity! Interval walking training improves fitness and health in elderly individuals:"
Shinshu University on November 1, 2019 wrote:Participants who walk longer at 70% or more of their maximum capacity see improvements in health and fitness. 50 minutes a week is what one needs to see peak aerobic capacity improve, as well as other blood work levels. ...

It's not how much you walk, but how intensely you do so for a minimum amount of time to get positive results. This finding may be welcome news for those who want to save time and get the most out of their workout. ...

Interval Walking Training is the method of walking at 70% of the walker's maximum capacity for 3 minutes, then at 40% of their capacity for the next 3 minutes. This is continued for 5 or more sets.


Excerpt from "Heart rate variability: A new way to track well-being:"
Marcelo Campos, MD UPDATED OCTOBER 22, 2019 wrote:Why check heart rate variability?

HRV is an interesting and noninvasive way to identify these ANS imbalances. If a person’s system is in more of a fight-or-flight mode, the variation between subsequent heartbeats is low. If one is in a more relaxed state, the variation between beats is high. In other words, the healthier the ANS the faster you are able to switch gears, showing more resilience and flexibility. Over the past few decades, research has shown a relationship between low HRV and worsening depression or anxiety. A low HRV is even associated with an increased risk of death and cardiovascular disease.

People who have a high HRV may have greater cardiovascular fitness and be more resilient to stress. HRV may also provide personal feedback about your lifestyle and help motivate those who are considering taking steps toward a healthier life. It is fascinating to see how HRV changes as you incorporate more mindfulness, meditation, sleep, and especially physical activity into your life. For those who love data and numbers, this can be a nice way to track how your nervous system is reacting not only to the environment, but also to your emotions, thoughts, and feelings.


1000delight
Sep 21, 2019

HRV is the MUST to verify the Wing Chun YJKYM, Internal art, or Qi training:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hAHDZQYOaQ

1000delight
Oct 3, 2019

Using HRV to verify Sink Qi To Dan Tian or Internal art Practice:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75wck0R5MCE
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby charles on Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:20 am

johnwang wrote:... if you train your form over and over non-stop...Just wonder if anybody has used this approach or not.


This is one traditional approach used in Chen style Taijiquan to train forms. The Yi Lu form ends with the same movement as the second movement at the start of the form. When one reaches the end of the form, instead of stopping, one continues by going right into the third movement of the form, making it a continuous loop, missing the first movement.

A modern version of that is taught by Zhu Tiancai in his 4-movement form: the first three movements of Yi Lu are repeated over and over and over again in a continuous loop. At the end of each repetition, there is a transition that becomes the second movement of the form, but pointed 90 degrees from the original direction. Thus, one performs the sequence in an endless series, each repetition 90 degrees from the last. After four repetitions one ends up where one started, effectively practicing in a small circle. (One can also practice the mirror image of the form this way - i.e. "left handed".)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOHwLmA5Mnc

Whether practicing this way is "healthier" than running 3 miles, or some other exercise, I can't say.
Last edited by charles on Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby johnwang on Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:40 pm

One thing that I find out is that if I keep doing this for 1 hour non-stop, my body just flow with the move. Even if I try to use any brute fore, I won't have any. I also find out that the less kick in the sequence, the easier to do it. I have 1 sequence that has 6 kicks, I can tell a big difference there.

For example, this sequence has no kick. It' very easy to repeat it 20 times non-stop.



This sequence has 6 kicks in it. It's a bit harder to comple 20 reps.

I'm still allergic to "push".
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby marvin8 on Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:35 pm

johnwang wrote:One thing that I find out is that if I keep doing this for 1 hour non-stop, my body just flow with the move. Even if I try to use any brute fore, I won't have any. I also find out that the less kick in the sequence, the easier to do it. I have 1 sequence that has 6 kicks, I can tell a big difference there.

For example, this sequence has no kick. It' very easy to repeat it 20 times non-stop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB4cVYvSN6Y

This sequence has 6 kicks in it. It's a bit harder to comple 20 reps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCVpE75mRLk

If your 3 miles running heart rate is higher than your drilling heart rate, the health benefits may not be "the same." Are you comparing one hour of drilling to 3 miles running? How long does it take you to run 3 miles, an hour?

If you're talking about practicing technique, it's generally not recommended to drill technique when, "I try to use any brute force, I won't have any." Because, one's form may be compromised. You may want to do other forms of cardio other than when focusing on technique or drill using HIIT.
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby Greg J on Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:08 pm

johnwang wrote:I try to replace my 3 miles running by non-stop long sequence drills for "health".

I find 12 long sequence drills about 10 moves of each. Repeat each drills 20 times non-stop. This will give me 12 x 10 x 20 = 2,400 moves. If I do it non-stop, the result can be the same as my 3 miles running.

What's your opinion about this training method for "health"?


Hi John,

Rather than replace the running, maybe incorporate the drills into your weekly routine? I can see doing them at a moderate intensity being great for balance, mobility, overall strength and aerobic health. On the other hand, three miles broken up into high intensity sprints (for example, on a 400M track, running 400M at 80% then resting for 2 minutes x 12) is a great anaerobic workout. Then again, an easy 3 mile run on a beautiful day is great for the body and the mind. So I guess it depends on what specific "health" benefits you are looking for.

Best,
Greg
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby Subitai on Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:30 pm

johnwang wrote:One thing that I find out is that if I keep doing this for 1 hour non-stop, my body just flow with the move. Even if I try to use any brute fore, I won't have any. I also find out that the less kick in the sequence, the easier to do it. I have 1 sequence that has 6 kicks, I can tell a big difference there.

For example, this sequence has no kick. It' very easy to repeat it 20 times non-stop.



...snip


Sorry this doesn't add to the discussion much but I gotta say:

Isn't it amazing how similar arts can be? John..in the video above, the sequence you do is very similar to a section of a form we have in Bak Sil Lum system...

= the form is the beginner one called "Lin Bu Chuan" . Anyway, I was just surprised because the moves in your video above is so very similar.
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby johnwang on Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:50 pm

Subitai wrote:= the form is the beginner one called "Lin Bu Chuan" .

It is Lin Bu Chuan.

I'm still allergic to "push".
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Re: Train partial form for "health"

Postby Subitai on Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:55 pm

johnwang wrote:
Subitai wrote:= the form is the beginner one called "Lin Bu Chuan" .

It is Lin Bu Chuan.




Very nice...I should have picked up on that sooner. haha


Last edited by Subitai on Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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