Is "internal" real that important?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby dspyrido on Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:21 pm

johnwang wrote:Why does anybody want to bring his secret into his grave? Any information that we share on this forum, even if just 1 person who can benefit from it, the sharing effort will be worthwhile.


My thoughts exactly. I don't assume anything great will happen but I found that spending time doing false starts might have been spent better elsewhere. Perhaps others will benefit. Perhaps not.

That said I don't understand why good training seems to disappear. So much experience just dies. I've heard lots of reasons but in the end I keep thinking the same thing ... Why would anyone want to take a training secret to the grave?
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby ctjla on Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:43 pm

dspyrido wrote:
johnwang wrote:Why does anybody want to bring his secret into his grave? Any information that we share on this forum, even if just 1 person who can benefit from it, the sharing effort will be worthwhile.


My thoughts exactly. I don't assume anything great will happen but I found that spending time doing false starts might have been spent better elsewhere. Perhaps others will benefit. Perhaps not.

That said I don't understand why good training seems to disappear. So much experience just dies. I've heard lots of reasons but in the end I keep thinking the same thing ... Why would anyone want to take a training secret to the grave?


Not sure if anyone is advocating taking any secrets to the grave.

More like some of that New Testament wisdom - don't cast your pearls (of wisdom) before a drove of 'Sus scrofa domesticus'. In other words, be able to make a distinction between a sincere student or question and someone that's close minded on a topic.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby dspyrido on Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:09 pm

ctjla wrote:In other words, be able to make a distinction between a sincere student or question and someone that's close minded on a topic.


The lazy, close minded or overzealous will never get this stuff.

The sneaky will steal bits and claim it their own. One of the reasons I heard but this stuff is just plain hard to see.

In the end I've seen amazing martial artists who embody skill but because they are not amazing self promoters or business organisers skills just disappear.

It's ok i guess. Internal or not if it's useful it will be rediscovered by someone else.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby johnwang on Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:56 pm

dspyrido wrote:The lazy, close minded or overzealous will never get this stuff.

Secret can be just like a piece thin paper. After you make a hole, you can see through it.

In my last Sunday class, I told my student that when one has reached to advance level, there will be no stealing step, no covering step. There will be only "hopping step". But for training, you have to go through stealing/covering step -> hopping step.

IMO, secret is the advance training method.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby johnwang on Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:10 pm

Just got few jokes to share.

A: I'm happy to see you.
B: How happy?
A: ...

Girl: I love you.
Boy: Me too. I love me too.
Girl: ...

Girl: I haven't seen my boy friend for a week. I'm afraid he doesn't want to see me any more.
Guy: You shouldn't have such negative attitude. You should think positively. I think your boy friend may be dead.
Girl: ...
Last edited by johnwang on Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby Tatanka on Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:33 am

a: look down
b: i know.
a: i'm blind.

ed.( got a few punch lines for you, thanks for the jokes)
Last edited by Tatanka on Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby everything on Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:41 pm

No offense, but MA skills, even the "esoteric" and "internal" ones will never disappear. This isn't rocket science or AI or self-driving cars that needs many generations of documented and formally passed on techniques and in some cases big data technologies. In the event of zombie apocalypse, people can pretty easily reinvent all fighting methods, all "yoga" methods, all "qigong" methods, relatively speaking. They won't even need books etc. They will have some fights, then that will cause people to figure out more efficient fighting. Reinventing something like nuclear bombs and space travel, OTOH, after the apocalypse may take 1000s and 1000s of years. MA is in no danger.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby windwalker on Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:18 pm

everything wrote:No offense, but MA skills, even the "esoteric" and "internal" ones will never disappear. This isn't rocket science or AI or self-driving cars that needs many generations of documented and formally passed on techniques and in some cases big data technologies. In the event of zombie apocalypse, people can pretty easily reinvent all fighting methods, all "yoga" methods, all "qigong" methods, relatively speaking. They won't even need books etc. They will have some fights, then that will cause people to figure out more efficient fighting. Reinventing something like nuclear bombs and space travel, OTOH, after the apocalypse may take 1000s and 1000s of years. MA is in no danger.


seems like a long time.


maybe in the year



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1mWvRjzgiY
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby Dmitri on Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:08 am

30 pages of this topic in the main forum, and it's still not in the BTDT section?! :D
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby johnwang on Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:21 pm

Dmitri wrote:30 pages of this topic in the main forum, and it's still not in the BTDT section?! :D

The day that IMA training and skill development can be integrated, the day that this kind of discussion will become BTDT.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby vadaga on Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:53 pm

johnwang wrote:
ctjla wrote:who would give up a key concept that cost them 5 or 10 years to uncover on a web post ...

Why does anybody want to bring his secret into his grave? Any information that we share on this forum, even if just 1 person who can benefit from it, the sharing effort will be worthwhile.

When a

- geese flies over, it's sound will remain in the sky.
- tiger dies, it's skin will be hanged on the wall.
- person dies, his contribution will remain on earth.

Whatever information that you may put up in the public, 100 years from today, that will be exactly how people may judge you.

I thought it was:
豹死留皮,人死留名。。。
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby johnwang on Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:34 pm

vadaga wrote:
johnwang wrote:When a

- geese flies over, it's sound will remain in the sky.
- tiger dies, it's skin will be hanged on the wall.
- person dies, his contribution will remain on earth.

Whatever information that you may put up in the public, 100 years from today, that will be exactly how people may judge you.

I thought it was:
豹死留皮,人死留名。。。

You want to prove that you have lived on this planet. Trying to keep everything in secret will not help you to achieve that.

雁过留声 - When geese fly over your head, the sound will remain in the sky.

Image

树死留杆 - After a tee is dead, the trunk will remain.

Image
Last edited by johnwang on Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby everything on Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:37 pm

Dmitri wrote:30 pages of this topic in the main forum, and it's still not in the BTDT section?! :D


yes please.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby klonk on Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:09 pm

I get what John Wang is saying. I will not presume to speak for him. He is quite capable.

My own opinion is that theory must not screw up the practical use of martial art. If I see a better way of decking somebody, I do not want some theoretical point getting in the way of that. Let the theory catch up with the facts.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
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Re: Is "internal" real that important?

Postby johnwang on Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:11 pm

klonk wrote:I get what John Wang is saying. I will not presume to speak for him. He is quite capable.

My own opinion is that theory must not screw up the practical use of martial art. If I see a better way of decking somebody, I do not want some theoretical point getting in the way of that. Let the theory catch up with the facts.

Again if your punch can knock your opponent down, you don't care whether you are using "internal" punch or external punch.

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