Failed Transformations: Peloton, Master Ken and Traditional

[GrahamB]

"This also suggests something important about what the traditional martial arts might do moving forward. The videos we see on YouTube of traditional (poorly trained, delusional) fighters being demolished by a MMA/Boxing/Muay Thai guys aren’t really the cause of our current troubles. Such fights have existed since the late 19th century. Rather, they are going viral now because society at large has lost faith in the transformative power of traditional martial arts training. And everyone enjoys watching evidence that confirms their preexisting beliefs.

Still, it is incorrect to proclaim the imminent demise of these systems. Society seems to crave stories of personal transformation just as much as ever, even if we no longer agree on the details of what is needed. And regular readers will already know that the way in which these arts have attempted to situate themselves in relation to such social discourses has changed in the past. Selling old wine in new skins simply will not do. The schools and systems that succeed will be those that take a close look at what sorts of personal transformations students are seeking and find ways to help them achieve them. The kickboxing classes that I mentioned earlier would seem to suggest that this is certainly a possibility. But doing so may require that we ween ourselves from the notion that the social expediencies of the 1980s (or the 1920s, or the 1890s) are necessarily binding on our arts moving forward.
"

Brilliant article.

https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2019/ ... GI4ZkOA3FY

[GrahamB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F72RvkJuLsU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ARCrlFLu88



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2t7lknrK28

[Peacedog]

I won't comment on the Peloton chick other than to say this is about the worst example of a first world latte faux outrage problem I've seen in quite some time.

As for martial arts writ large, and this is true of both MMA and TMA, these things have long since transitioned from practical tools to the realm of entertainment and sport. And there is nothing wrong with that. But with MMA you can make some money as a mid-earning sport and that favors a more serious group of practitioners at some level. TMAs are firmly in the lifestyle and entertainment camp. That means a more serious approach is far less likely.

The transformational effects are what they are. Given the Asian predilection for extremely crappy pedagogy, and cultism, the actual tools for effecting this are typically difficult to discern from the stuff that is a waste of time. Delusion is not unique to TMA and figuring all of that out is just as difficult for a martial artist as it is for a monastic or a Western magician working in a stone circle in the country side.

I would say that one of the biggest threats to the viability of TMA, and the primary one behind their decline writ large, is that modern people have a lot of choices as to what to do with their time. Sometimes this is productive like getting that petroleum engineering degree and other times not so much as in playing Dragon Age III. Traditionally a lot of martial arts had many participants as there simply wasn't much to do in the village after about 5 pm every day and you had to give the fellas something to do or they were going to get into trouble. This was particularly true for young, unmarried and bored men between the ages of 15-25.

The more successful schools I've seen fall into two camps: belt based systems for kids (parents love to spend money on that stuff) and people who form a large personal following of mostly men in their early thirties to late fourties as these guys are firmly into their careers and need an hour or so of personal time per day away from family/business. The second group is far more likely to become culty if a significant number of the participants are women and the head instructor is a man.

None of this is bad. But if you want your art to survive some kind of mechanism has to be in place give you the personal space you need to fund all of that practice time. The economics of this kind of thing has always been important and people ignore that at their peril. Keep in mind a lot of the better practitioners in the 80's came out of a time in mainland China where communism has destroyed the ability to do anything meaningful with your life. So it left a lot of time to practice with. As there was nothing else to do.

[Trick]

this is about the worst example of a first world latte faux outrage problem

gotta agree

[Dmitri]

^^ +1
PC has gone completely insane these days

[GrahamB]

haha - you are the last bastions of toxic masculinity. How very dare you!

[charles]

Given the Asian predilection for extremely crappy pedagogy, and cultism, the actual tools for effecting this are typically difficult to discern from the stuff that is a waste of time.

That perfectly and succinctly summarizes the situation.

[Peacedog]

Maybe this explains the Peloton lady...

https://nypost.com/2019/12/16/porn-site ... le-riders/

[dspyrido]

When I was in the USA a month back I saw the peloton ad. When I went to the gym all the bikes where peloton. Mentioned it to someone and he explained why they are good exercise bikes. On seeing the negative reactions it left me wondering... were they fabricated in a move to create attention? If so I'd hire that advertising agency.

[Peacedog]

Apparently it backfired. Peloton lost 10% of their stock price after the whole kerfuffle.

And they are nice bikes. The SJW crowd just got another scalp. That said, the controversy might be good for publicity like you said. But as expensive as those things are I'm just not sure what the market is.

[origami_itto]

Apparently it backfired. Peloton lost 10% of their stock price after the whole kerfuffle.

And they are nice bikes. The SJW crowd just got another scalp. That said, the controversy might be good for publicity like you said. But as expensive as those things are I'm just not sure what the market is.

The SJW crowd? Looks to me like the free market has spoken.

[everything]

So many nice nuggets in your post, Peacedog, that I had to just reply for fun.

I won't comment on the Peloton chick other than to say this is about the worst example of a first world latte faux outrage problem I've seen in quite some time.

this is just so true. LOL.

As for martial arts writ large, and this is true of both MMA and TMA, these things have long since transitioned from practical tools to the realm of entertainment and sport.

there really is barely any practical use when the violence in society is a maniac with an automatic weapon shooting other schoolchildren. sadly.

TMAs are firmly in the lifestyle and entertainment camp. That means a more serious approach is far less likely.

there is SO MUCH better entertainment and lifestyle activity out there.

The transformational effects are what they are. Given the Asian predilection for extremely crappy pedagogy, and cultism, the actual tools for effecting this are typically difficult to discern from the stuff that is a waste of time. Delusion is not unique to TMA and figuring all of that out is just as difficult for a martial artist as it is for a monastic or a Western magician working in a stone circle in the country side.

People can do meditation, follow Tony Robbins, do life hacks, learn bad software development for great pay, abuse their bodies via "Ironman" or fad diets, etc. So much better transformation to be had.

I would say that one of the biggest threats to the viability of TMA, and the primary one behind their decline writ large, is that modern people have a lot of choices as to what to do with their time. Sometimes this is productive like getting that petroleum engineering degree and other times not so much as in playing Dragon Age III. Traditionally a lot of martial arts had many participants as there simply wasn't much to do in the village after about 5 pm every day and you had to give the fellas something to do or they were going to get into trouble. This was particularly true for young, unmarried and bored men between the ages of 15-25.

team sports are so much better for this for so many reasons.

The more successful schools I've seen fall into two camps: belt based systems for kids (parents love to spend money on that stuff) and people who form a large personal following of mostly men in their early thirties to late fourties as these guys are firmly into their careers and need an hour or so of personal time per day away from family/business. The second group is far more likely to become culty if a significant number of the participants are women and the head instructor is a man.

team sports are so much better and parents know that (as seen in what parents pay for)

None of this is bad. But if you want your art to survive some kind of mechanism has to be in place give you the personal space you need to fund all of that practice time. The economics of this kind of thing has always been important and people ignore that at their peril. Keep in mind a lot of the better practitioners in the 80's came out of a time in mainland China where communism has destroyed the ability to do anything meaningful with your life. So it left a lot of time to practice with. As there was nothing else to do.

not sure who has time for anything given the useless social media activities kids can do.

[dspyrido]

Apparently it backfired. Peloton lost 10% of their stock price after the whole kerfuffle.

And they are nice bikes. The SJW crowd just got another scalp. That said, the controversy might be good for publicity like you said. But as expensive as those things are I'm just not sure what the market is.

Was this before or after they grew 1000%+ in sales and then floated at a valuation of over $1 Billion?

Just because SJW crowd thinks that they can moan their way into peoples lives doesn't mean they understand business or the reverse impact they are having with their campaigns. A 10% drop on $1B doesn't do much impact on a company or it's founders that was valued at next to nothing just a few years ago.

BTW Peloton is a relatively unknown brand in the rest of the world.... until recently. Guess international expansion has now become a reality.
SJW's pat themselves on the back for a 10% impact. CEO of Peloton rubs hands with glee, eyes the world market and says "thank you social media".

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

Yup! You guys better call up the SJW headquarters to show them that you can pat each other's backs just as quickly. Oh wait, it was actually just some people on twitter who made fun of a commercial and you had to turn it into some sort of conspiracy.

GTFO.

[GrahamB]

But Ian, you don’t understand! Sir Jordan Peterson has convinced them that this is the fight of their lives!

The kingdom of Jerusalem is at stake, we must slay the dragon and bring order to Chaos!