In the past

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: In the past

Postby dspyrido on Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:01 pm

windwalker wrote:actually it was the old way which is why they kept things secret
in a time when what one knew was thought to matter more then what
some might call natural abilities.

One night, he was awakened by the sounds of "Hen" (哼) and "Ha" (哈) in the distance. He got up and traced the sound to an old building. Peeking through the broken wall, he saw his master Chen, Chang-xing teaching the techniques of grasp, control, and emitting jin in coordination with the sounds "Hen" and "Ha."

He was amazed by the techniques and from that time on, unknown to master Chen, he continued to watch this secret practice session every night.

He would then return to his room to ponder and study. Because of this, his martial ability advanced rapidly. One day, Chen ordered him to spar with the other disciples. To his surprise, none of the other students could defeat him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Luchan


I always look at yang's story and think - the techniques can't have been too complex if he could learn by observing and then go off and b train them solo.

Which might explain the need for secrecy - they were not complex and could easily be "stolen" so keep them secret.
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Re: In the past

Postby dspyrido on Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:35 pm

johnwang wrote:That's the old way of thinking. By using the modern way of thinking, one should be able to learn from just

1. words,
2. picture.
3. video.

IMO 3 > 2 > 1.


Agreed.

Ever met the authors of martial arts books and realised that either I've been duped or this guy is delusional? I have.

The martial artists I've met who I think are great rarely can write well or even organise themselves well to produce and promote a good book. They rely on others to do that.

But they can be videoed where you can assess quickly how they move and if they have recorded fights what they really do.


I can understand the authors who in the past wrote promotional pieces but many of these books are supposed to be the manual of their art. A look through many in Brennan translations and it's lots of forms, philosophy & history. Although some books have it in the end very little attention is on conditioning, applications or sparring methods. But the anecdotal stories I've heard started that this is what they did and was very important.

This is the part that confuses me. If this is the precious manual which is being passed on then why skip important bits? Was that done on purpose & the special bits were passed on word and mouth?
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Re: In the past

Postby johnwang on Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:32 pm

dspyrido wrote: they can be videoed where you can assess quickly how they move ...

- An elementary school kid will need a teacher to spoon feed him.
- A high school student can read book "War and Peace" by himself.
- A granulate school student can do research all by himself with little help from his professor.

I have learned

- 8 moves preying mantis combo by watching one of Brendan Lai's student trained.
- the Shao Hu Yen whole form by watch my long fist teacher who taught advance students.
- knee strike, inner hook combo from my teacher's story (words) who challenged a Judo master in Beijing.

If you have learned "inner hook" to throw your opponent

- backward, and
- side way,

from this clip, you can learn that you can also use "inner hook" to throw your opponent circular. Since your circular inner hook can not generate as much power as your linear inner hook can, you will need to figure out how to set up in order to borrow your opponent's force.

An online clip can help your training in many different ways if you know how to take advantage on it.

Image
I'm still allergic to "push".
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Re: In the past

Postby nicklinjm on Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:28 pm

@dspyrido, you have to bear in mind the historical and cultural context when those manuals were written. They were not meant to be a full, complete training manual for the art(s) - that would only be for indoor disciples, if such a manual even existed. These were just meant to introduce the 'public' portion of the art, as part of the 'strong body, strong nation' thinking prevalent at the time in China.
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Re: In the past

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:26 am

In the past the emphasis would have been on weapons skills, such as the sword/sabre or spear.. Like Chen Fake fending off the bandits with his staff. Shaolin monks, likewise, were famous for their staves. Li Shuwen for his spear. Baguazhang was famous for its weapons as well. The list goes on...
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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