Why most martial arts don't work in self defense.

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Why most martial arts don't work in self defense.

Postby johnwang on Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:55 pm

I can only speak for myself. If anything that cannot help me in fighting, I won't have interest to train it. Lately I try to simplify my entering strategy. If I can use

- 2 steps, I won't use 3 steps.
- 1 step, I won't use 2 steps.
- hopping, I won't use 1 step.
I'm still allergic to "push".
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9374
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Why most martial arts don't work in self defense.

Postby Trick on Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:42 am

C.J.W. wrote:
In the olden days, when people had to rely on martial arts in order to survive on the battlefield or fight against bandits, they had to make sure their techniques worked -- or else be dead.

But how does that fit with this quote?
“These skills will not prepare you for battle, but they can supply you with extra strength. Therefore they too should be a part of military training. On the other hand, civilians who do not have much strength can also learn much that is useful from these skills...
  Boxing arts do not seem to be useful skills for the battlefield, but they exercise the hands and feet, and accustom the limbs and body to hard work. Thus they serve as basic training.” - Qi Jiguang, 1560
[/quote]
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3008
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Why most martial arts don't work in self defense.

Postby Trick on Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:48 am

johnwang wrote:I can only speak for myself. If anything that cannot help me in fighting, I won't have interest to train it. Lately I try to simplify my entering strategy. If I can use

- 2 steps, I won't use 3 steps.
- 1 step, I won't use 2 steps.
- hopping, I won't use 1 step.

Does this lead to ZZ ? 8-)
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3008
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Why most martial arts don't work in self defense.

Postby C.J.W. on Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:55 am

Trick wrote:
C.J.W. wrote:
In the olden days, when people had to rely on martial arts in order to survive on the battlefield or fight against bandits, they had to make sure their techniques worked -- or else be dead.

But how does that fit with this quote?
“These skills will not prepare you for battle, but they can supply you with extra strength. Therefore they too should be a part of military training. On the other hand, civilians who do not have much strength can also learn much that is useful from these skills...
  Boxing arts do not seem to be useful skills for the battlefield, but they exercise the hands and feet, and accustom the limbs and body to hard work. Thus they serve as basic training.” - Qi Jiguang, 1560
[/quote]

As a native speaker of Chinese, I've actually read the original writing of the section you quoted.

It should be noted that he was specifically referring to how EMPTY-HAND fighting skills were not useful on the battlefield where a soldier had to deal with multiple weapon-wielding enemies at the same time -- sure makes a whole lot of sense, doesn't it? ;) ;D

Also keep in mind that weapon training and fighting are an integral part of TCMA as well.
C.J.W.
Wuji
 
Posts: 1843
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:02 am

Re: Why most martial arts don't work in self defense.

Postby Bao on Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:08 am

johnwang wrote:
Bao wrote:...So why would you even want proofs that they work? :-\

I had made this work in the street before (Hawaii 1983). Why? Because I might have saved a girl's life that day and that made me happy.https://i.postimg.cc/fbXkSszf/sweep-head-lock.gif


I have made my art work and I have confidence in my skills. But I understand that it’s impossible to prove to something to someone else. I don’t care if people believe in these arts or not and I have no urge to persuade anyone.

C.J.W. wrote:
Trick wrote:
C.J.W. wrote:
In the olden days, when people had to rely on martial arts in order to survive on the battlefield or fight against bandits, they had to make sure their techniques worked -- or else be dead.

But how does that fit with this quote?
“These skills will not prepare you for battle, but they can supply you with extra strength. Therefore they too should be a part of military training. On the other hand, civilians who do not have much strength can also learn much that is useful from these skills...
  Boxing arts do not seem to be useful skills for the battlefield, but they exercise the hands and feet, and accustom the limbs and body to hard work. Thus they serve as basic training.” - Qi Jiguang, 1560


As a native speaker of Chinese, I've actually read the original writing of the section you quoted.

It should be noted that he was specifically referring to how EMPTY-HAND fighting skills were not useful on the battlefield where a soldier had to deal with multiple weapon-wielding enemies at the same time -- sure makes a whole lot of sense, doesn't it? ;) ;D

Also keep in mind that weapon training and fighting are an integral part of TCMA as well.[/quote]

There were certainly families of different classes practicing martial arts, but I would also think that weapons training was more important to learn in order to protect your home or help your village.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7285
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Why most martial arts don't work in self defense.

Postby Trick on Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:21 am

C.J.W. wrote:
Trick wrote:
C.J.W. wrote:
In the olden days, when people had to rely on martial arts in order to survive on the battlefield or fight against bandits, they had to make sure their techniques worked -- or else be dead.

But how does that fit with this quote?
“These skills will not prepare you for battle, but they can supply you with extra strength. Therefore they too should be a part of military training. On the other hand, civilians who do not have much strength can also learn much that is useful from these skills...
  Boxing arts do not seem to be useful skills for the battlefield, but they exercise the hands and feet, and accustom the limbs and body to hard work. Thus they serve as basic training.” - Qi Jiguang, 1560


As a native speaker of Chinese, I've actually read the original writing of the section you quoted.

It should be noted that he was specifically referring to how EMPTY-HAND fighting skills were not useful on the battlefield where a soldier had to deal with multiple weapon-wielding enemies at the same time -- sure makes a whole lot of sense, doesn't it? ;) ;D

Also keep in mind that weapon training and fighting are an integral part of TCMA as well.[/quote]
Oh, I thought you in your post was solely talking about boxing. Yes weapon practice was most probably useful for ancient martial artists.
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3008
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Why most martial arts don't work in self defense.

Postby yeniseri on Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:25 am

johnwang wrote:
yeniseri wrote:Trying to explain martial realty to CMA people is like talking to a wall! Everybody does it differently but no one wants to pressure test and see where they really stand with 'no holds barred".

What do you think that make CMA to have this kind of attitude?


I remain clueless to this day!
Perhaps many teachers are good at hypnosis that they can direct their students minds to believe in the myth that if you only do a form 25 times, you can develop martial skill without contact or 'pressure testing' (my new term in use right now) and student never tesst the statement, or arejust afraid of contact. Again, I don't have a clue as to why people believe what they do in CMA without proof of a technique working or why it does not work!
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3244
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA

Previous

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests