Borrow Force

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Borrow Force

Postby Subitai on Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:33 pm

Johnwang, I agree with you about clinch. I've always preferred to be up close Grabbing and clinching.... as opposed to VS a guy who knows how to "Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee" :)

But...if i'm able to take the most simple road, i'll do that 1st. Older I get, the more simple I become.

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C.J.W. wrote:
Your anecdotes point out what I consider to be a major weakness in conventional TCMA training.

TCMA training tends to focus exclusively on how to control and fight an opponent AFTER arm/hand contact is made (i.e., 接手 jieshou), but very little on how to do so BEFORE making contact by using skills such as timing, feinting, distancing, and footwork.

IMO, those are actually the kind of skills that non-Chinese arts -- such as boxing and even Kendo -- excel in, and ones that TCMAists should also have if the goal is to become a proficient fighter.


That is exactly why i pointed those out...My experience taught me to change how I looked at and I used my TCMA. Almost all my posts and YT videos are about how you set people up. I'm constantly saying it and also, that when people show a method...they should also show how to counter it.

Example...a general fighter (or lets say MMA guy) knows he's facing a kung fu guy that wants to bridge and stick and use his kung fu.
* Aside from the obvious which is: "He could have zero respect for the KF guy and just blast right through him" = because he knows he hasn't been pressure tested enough

He could use strategy #1 (as JohnWang referred) to make the KF guy look incompetent.
or
He could close the gap rapidly (#2) by shooting in or ducking under ect ect / Grabbing and clinching just to annoy the KF guy.

- actually this plays into another Weakness as you put it. Respect! and One Shot Kill fantasy!


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About respect ,
I want to point out at least ONE OTHER WEAKNESS by most TCMA trained people.

That is the ability to deal out massive violence from the very start of a fight...if for no other reason than to earn respect.

Example, Again we have a MMA guy facing the typical KF guy.

- The MMA guy has ZERO RESPECT for the ability of the average KF guy to hurt him...he's able to move in freely and have a field day on the KF guy. So yeah, the end result is, KF suxks. ::)

- If however the KF guy has any fight experience worth a dang and can Truly bang out some punishment from the very start of a fight / match (also minding his breath control and not gassing out)... He can make the MMA feel as if: "Holy sh!T, this KF guy could actually hurt me!"

- It changes the dynamic altogether.
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About the One Shot kill fantasy..

How many people do you see out there get lucky and land a shot and realize:

1) they didn't hurt their opponent (as much as they theorized they would or not at all)

2) Their technique isn't working...NOW what the F>>> do I do?

3) They don't understand, how to finish another human being who is actually fighting back. Never to rely or believe that just one shot can do it.

- Can it happen yes... but less than desired and usually they need to learn to attack in combinations.

Strike, with locks and sweeps or throws all put together. IE..massive violence that earns their respect.
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