Trick wrote:johnwang wrote:Formosa Neijia wrote:Making a circular rotation vertically or horizontally is too slow for many combat applications.
i also think using the word rotation causes confusion.
The horizontally rotation makes perfect sense when you apply the "切 (Qie) - front cut".
In that gif, is that dantian rotation? I’m askin because I actually don’t know how deliberate dantian rotations look. Does wrestling arts have specific dantian exercises - Greco/Roman, Judo, GJJ/BJJ, ShuaiJiao?
johnwang wrote:Trick wrote:
In that gif, is that dantian rotation?
Here is my concern. I can prove with video that waist rotation is useful in combat. Can anybody be able to prove that Dantian rotation can be used in combat?
If you don't even use the waist rotation, why do you even bother to use the Dantian rotation? Use Dantian rotation for what purpose?
jaime_g wrote:Two of my older cousins won many golf championships during his youth. They still have amazing hip swings. They have zero dantian rotation.
I gave an exercise before as an example of dantian rotation training. I tested my cousins at it. The both left the wall by moving the hips and shoulders, they couldnt isolate dantian area muscle movement.
It requires focused training, you cant use something you havent trained.
jaime_g wrote:Two of my older cousins won many golf championships during his youth. They still have amazing hip swings. They have zero dantian rotation.
I gave an exercise before as an example of dantian rotation training. I tested my cousins at it. The both left the wall by moving the hips and shoulders, they couldnt isolate dantian area muscle movement.
It requires focused training, you cant use something you havent trained.
One poster concluded that golfers don’t use it so most probably base ballers neither, hockey players ? Boxers ? Gymnasts ? Weigh/power lifters? Ballet dancers ?.....Does it get you spiritually heightened? Greater health?
jaime_g wrote:
Why should they use it? You dont use something that you dont train.
D_Glenn wrote:Fwiw it’s worth. I have done Shuai Jiao with John Wang and got to feel how his body works while doing basic Shuai Jiao throws.
And I have also done basic Shuai Jiao with Luo Dexiu Gao style bagua, and practiced and felt basic Shuai Jiao with my teacher He Jinbao Yin Style Bagua.
John’s usage of strength is completely different than the Baguazhang. It’s hard to explain. I don’t know if I could easily do it. I will try to think of a way to describe the difference. Of course the best way to know is to feel the difference for yourself. But I don’t know how feasible that is. The Baguazhang guys do seminars, I don’t know about John. And I don’t know that any other Judo or Shuai Jiao guys will have the same extremely high level of skill as John. I am comparing elite level martial artist to elite level artists of a different movement paradigm. Not amateur to elite.
But, from this thread, and others on RSF, I now know that the biggest reason for this difference is that John is not using Dantian Zhuan (turning/ rotation), while the Baguazhang guys are.
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D_Glenn wrote:jaime_g wrote:Two of my older cousins won many golf championships during his youth. They still have amazing hip swings. They have zero dantian rotation.
I gave an exercise before as an example of dantian rotation training. I tested my cousins at it. The both left the wall by moving the hips and shoulders, they couldnt isolate dantian area muscle movement.
It requires focused training, you cant use something you havent trained.
Exactly.
And I’m pretty sure you and I are talking about the same thing. And if I read back through this thread I could find more people.
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New postby johnwang on Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:51 pm
One of my SC brothers had a comment in front of my teacher and made my teacher very mad. The comment was,
"Nobody in the modern time has the luxury to train Gong. It's totally old fashion and out of date."
everything wrote:whatever this is, it doesn't seem to be the same "dantian" that neidan talks about. or maybe it's some combination of neidan and mechanics (which I would love to be the conclusion / what you guys are saying).
everything wrote:jaime_g wrote:
Why should they use it? You dont use something that you dont train.
it doesn't make sense that something that can help rotational circular power should not be trained. e.g., American football could surely use something that is good for sumo, wrestling, etc. if it's special only for isolated MA cases, it doesn't make logical sense if we say it helps with these kinds of power applications.
if it's purely muscular (I don't think that should be called "dantian") then it should help in so many other "applications".
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