the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

No gotchas here - just looking for some insights from those of you who train xingyi for health reasons - no specific diseases or conditions - just general health.

For example do you use the big spear exercises as part of your routine?

Thanks in advance

What do you mean by health? Musculoskeletal fitness? Mind/body? Qi/tcm?

In the same way you would treat running, swimming etc. etc.. For example, using running to keep fit would not necessitate training for a marathon or say for hurdles (which I did a billion years ago). I don't separate out any of the above you listed.

I am more interested in one's approach to a routine that emphasized health i.e. Musculoskeletal fitness, Mind/body, and/or Qi/tcm.

Interested in the composition and intensity of the training for those who are primarily seeing it as part of, but not exclusively, a fitness routine. This doesn't mean applications are voided but let's say 2 - 3 hours of daily training might not be optimal or necessary for health benefits.

I am guessing that san ti shi would be a centerpiece, a mother activity, but what have others found useful - for example, when I was younger, in my 30s and 40s, we did baji and praying mantis drills up and down about a 50 yard field (backyard) - I could see that as part of xing yi training but maybe a bit much for the "older" generation.

Just looking for shared insights and really want to void critiques of what someone may or may not being doing correctly.

Thanks

my bias is on the qi/tcm/holistic side for the health definition, and santishi zz is super interesting as well as for mind/body. I found it gives an intense focus with kind of a forward intent.

for musculoskeletal fitness, I'd like to try 5 elements with heavy objects. .... but too lazy and just swinging KBs instead.

- XY system trains inhale, not exhale.
- Punch out slow, pull back fast (I believe this is only good for health).
- Punch out exhale, pull back inhale.
- Long exhale, short inhale.

You should not use CMA training for health until one day you are 70 years old.

I like mixing things up. As the schools are shut in this covid time my training includes

- a lot of varying solo sequences of applications + a throwing dummy
- 5 element and 10 animal drills. (no long forms)
- bodyweight exercises
- few basic weights including heavy pole drills
- stretching, rolling foam
- pe da
- Xy santi

I train xy for martial arts benefits & it should only be done with health advantages (why would anyone train to hurt themself?).

In xy training it's yin/yang.

Lower, longer faster - Higher, shorter, slower.
Sometimes also add weights on arms and legs. Sometimes not.
Sometimes relaxing - sometimes intense
Sometimes pick a particular move and repeat - other times to through all the moves

One of the ways I was taught years back was to perform pi quan once, hold the posture and do relaxed breathing for 9 breaths, then move forward with another pi quan, hold the posture and do relaxed breathing for 9 breaths - continue this for about say 9 movements forward and then, without turning around, move backwards in pi quan doing the same repetitions until you return to where you started.

Also learned to do the wu xing in standing, static postures - forces work on the waist/yao area.

As I have stated previously I found the Xing Yi Nei Gong exercises written about by Cartmell & Miller and then put out by Bisio extremely helpful in flexibility and relaxation and over well-being -just feel really good after doing them for 45 -60 minutes (including the crawling tiger exercise and a bit of very light seated dumb bell curls - these exercises had such a similarity to what I learned over the years but what I learned was not ordered up in any standardized routine - the big spear exercises also provided some good results.

Also learned to use light wrap around wrist weights when I trained dao and sword and sounds like they would work in xing yi?

I appreciate your responses as I reconfigure my workouts as I approach retirement (actually I am past the 65 year old mark)

To repeat this sequence 20 times is part of my regular daily training.

Nice

I had a very short form, very similar, primarily fist - not a linking form but unfortunately I forgot it and somewhere back I have a linking form too - I would have to find it. I also learned most of the 12 animals but I just want to simplify but still be effective and since I am not concerned with applications, the wu xing works ok for me.

What I use for an exercise like that is the Liu he duan chui (six harmony short punch) which is part of the liu he mantis system but not praying mantis.

Bob wrote:What I use for an exercise like that is the Liu he duan chui (six harmony short punch) which is part of the liu he mantis system but not praying mantis.

Could you share your "Liu he duan chui" here?

I like to train the kernel of CMA systems such as:

- XY 5 elements.
- long fist 5 punches (hook, back fist, upper cut, hammer fist, jab/cross).
- PM 5 hands (hook, hook, face punch, belly punch, back fist, groin kick).
- Baji tiger climb mountain (punch, elbow, palm).
- SC 4 sides (cut, sickle hook, inner hook, outer hook).
- ...

Here is the long fist 5 punches.

I unfortunately do not have any recordings of the Liu He Duan Chui I learned nor have I found any on the internet.

This clip is about 1/3 (from the beginning) similar to what I learned, however, it looks as though they mixed in some of the liu he praying mantis forms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iz6ouSDbiI



As far as I know, the liu he duan chui I learned was from Tony Yang which most likely came from Zhang Xiansan or one of his disciples and then refined by Liu Yunqiao I learned it 3 times over the past 15 years or so and gave it back twice - the 3rd time I learned it, I understood it and out of everything I have learned, it is my favorite - without much of a struggle, I understand the applications.

The form I learned sort of breaks into 3 segments which can be practice alone - I also learned a very nice version of qi xing zhai yao which I was told had elements of liu he tang lang quan added to it to make it softer.

Thanks for the clips - when I retire, in a year or so, I may take to writing again and also publishing the VHS clips I have collected over the years. Frankly, I am less interested in the martial side and really want to simplify and practice the things I like best.

If you want Hsing I for health just do the heavenly stem exercises
Much better than the supposed Hsing I noi gung
If you want Hsing I for health try not to mix in other arts or supposed Hsing I done like other arts
All Hsing I training done well and adhering to its principles is good for health

I think some of your guys may be too young to worry about "train CMA for health".

One day my teacher said, "You may not like to move slow now, but you will like it when you get older." Even today, I still don't like to move slow. To me,

slow = old = sick = weak = death

fast = young = healthy = strong = alive.

The problem with doing anything for health is .... what health?

Mental? Mobility? Flexibility? Tendon strength? Cardio vascular? Muscular? Specific organ? Anti pathogens? Body regeneration?

I think all martial arts is done to help with fighting. Health is a byproduct of it. Its biggest advantage is to teach handling "the fight". Most often the fight is not with others but life's adversities.

dspyrido wrote:The problem with doing anything for health is .... what health?

To me, health = feel young. Anything that make me to feel old is bad for my health.

Instead of "train CMA for health", why not just "maintain your CMA ability"? When you were young, you spend time to develop your CMA skill/ability. When you get older, you want to maintain your CMA skill/ability. You don't want to lose it. When you are in "maintenance" mode, you will get your health by default.

If fighting is my CMA goal, I'll not change my goal just because my age.