Five bows issue together

[Trick]

Practitioners of Guo Yunshen lineage perform the half step beng quan by dragging the rear leg forward. The idea is that Guo Yunshen was dragging an iron ball chained to his leg, that created a very powerful stretch of the gluteal muscles and find a way to balance himself without the iron ball. So the half step is to drag the rear leg half a step forward. Maybe that sort of answered the question of not pushing the rear leg forward, Actually when one push the rear leg forward concentrically it blocks the rotation movement generated by thee gluteal stretch.

I think it’s more “push off” the body forward with the rear leg...one can of course do a more stationary “falling step” with the forward leg, so not too much push with any leg......then one can be completely stationary, wher both forward and rear leg kind of “push against” each other.

[Yeung]

I am suggesting that people from the Guo Yunshen lineage seem to do it like that and that is not the only way. From a biomechanics perspective utilizing the gluteal muscles in additional to back, shoulder and arm might be an advantage.

[suckinlhbf]

gluteal muscles

It is the biggest and strongest muscle in the body. Not making use of it is a waste.

[johnwang]

If your punch need to cover some distance, without using your back leg, how can you obtain that distance? Without using your back leg, how can you generate the momentum?

[BruceP]

Training The Bows for Balance and Unity

2 2x6 boards 3/12 feet long - 2 pcs of rope about 3 feet long - a shovel handle or stout broom handle about 3 feet long

Drill two holes in one of the boards, about 3 feet apart - Tie a knot on the end of each rope and pass one of them through each of the holes (the knot should be big enough to prevent the rope from going through the holes in the board)

Tie the other ends of the ropes around the handle so that they're equal length and the handle is level, 2 or three inches above your kneecaps

Lay the 2 boards on the ground parallel with each other with a 2 inch gap between them

Stand on the boards with the drilled board under the fronts of your feet and the undrilled one under your heels and arches with your feet spaced shoulder-width and your hands spaced so they're wider than your stance

Lift the handle as hard as you can while keeping your back straight - prevent the front board from being raised by pressing your weight down onto the boards.

[everything]

it's a little hard to visualize.

have you ever played that fun game where you stand on a giant foam log, with a giant foam stick weapon and try to knock each other off the round log? it is SO FUN. but for the MA nerd aspect, you have to use yin/yang. if you are too tense and stiff, you will not be able to adapt and you will more easily lose balance or provide some force to borrow. or you will provide some "hard" object to push against. if you use "roll back" "wardoff" etc., it's easier. It's a perfect "two person drill" for "tai chi with weapons" without any passive aggressive bullshit that tai chi hippies love. It doesn't need anything "internal" as far as neigong type stuff, but if you have your from-the-center biomechanics, have at it. it's also probably easier if you grew up skateboarding or doing those balance type sports.

[suckinlhbf]

without using your back leg

The back leg of course plays a major role. Back leg pushes backward, Front knee pushes forward, open the hip. They all happen at the same time. It could have more power, speed, and stability.

[johnwang]

This is the way that I train the Xing Yi Beng Chuan (or long fist leading arm vertical punch):

Start with left leg forward 3-7 stance (Santi Shi) or 4-6 stance.

1. Compress - Extend left arm forward with downward parry, pull back right hand, step in left leg, bend right leg.
2. Release - Step in right leg, left leg follow, right punch send out, left palm pull back.

I believe by using the term compress and release, it's much easier to understand the power generation this way. It's like to

- pull the bow, and
- shoot the arrow,

a 2 steps process.

Is my description simpler than the 5 bows issue together?

[windwalker]

Whether it’s simpler or not it’s only a description of a process that describes certain result.

What are called five bows, are understood to be used as one.
The cumulative effect, noted by the reference to five acting as a single unit.

Stringing the bow. Probably more important and understanding what this means, how to do it,
what it is.

“As if shooting an arrow “

A string on a violin plucked releases its energy as sound
A bow released, releases its energy acting on the arrow

Some talk of a watermelon seed pressed between two fingers, suddenly
shot out from the force.

Is it the same?

[suckinlhbf]

Those are concepts, and point to the same thing.

What come out from the training is what you want to train for - for Martial purpose or for health purpose. The primary purpose makes a lot of differences and leads the trainers to different path. However, health comes with training for martial but not the other way round.

[windwalker]

Those are concepts, and point to the same thing.

What come out from the training is what you want to train for - for Martial purpose or for health purpose. The primary purpose makes a lot of differences and leads the trainers to different path. However, health comes with training for martial but not the other way round.

Funny thing about those claiming to use their training for health is that they tend to reference everything within the context of the Martial. There are many things that one can do that are direct and intended to facilitate or improve health.

IME, many of the practice done a long while ago, in hindsight probably not too healthy, being very hard on the body intended only to gain some functional ability for fighting. Often wonder about it going into the autumn years.

[suckinlhbf]

IME, many of the practice done a long while ago, in hindsight probably not too healthy, being very hard on the body intended only to gain some functional ability for fighting. Often wonder about it going into the autumn years

Most of the trainings are a break and build process. The training approach and process have to be well managed. The practitioners also use medicines to help the healing and building processes. A 60 years old can still progress with proper trainings. 70 years old? I don't know. Not there yet.

[johnwang]

Can you release a bow without compress it first? You can't. Without compress, there will be no release. So how to compress your 5 bows?

1. Compress - Extend left arm forward with downward parry (bow 1), pull back right hand (bow 2), step in left leg (bow 3), bend right leg (bow 4).
2. Release - Step in right leg (bow 1), left leg follow (bow 2), right punch send out (bow 3), left palm pull back (bow 4).

If we add body (bow 5), this concept is the same as 5 bows issue together - 5 bows all compress at the same time, all release at the same time.

[suckinlhbf]

Another option is 张力 in martial arts contest - keep the limbs and body straight and relax, squeeze the whole body to elongate the limbs to give a short and shocking power. Compress and release happen at the same time. It is another 5 bows issue together.

[johnwang]

Compress and release happen at the same time.

In physics, this is impossible. B and C cannot happen at the same time.