Hope for traditional martial arts

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby GrahamB on Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:55 am

Great (long) article, full of good bits. Here's a quote

"Almost everything that we practice today, from Taijiquan to Wing Chun, is a product of the second half of the 19th century or the first decades of the 20th. Some of these arts were created in response to periods of unprecedent upheaval in Chinese society, whereas others were fundamentally reformed and popularized among new groups of students. Individuals in China faced existential questions about the future of their state, society and economy during the century that spanned from 1850 to 1950. Some of the decades most important to the development of the modern martial arts (1890s, 1920s) were characterized by growing international conflict, domestic physical insecurity and warlordism. Of course, these were the precisely issues that inspired China’s martial arts reformers as they sought to reformulate cultural ideas and practices that had been inherited from the past. Seen in this light the generalist nature of these systems, and their holistic understanding of questions of human security and survival are less surprising. These systems were developed out of, and in response to, a unique period of crisis. As such, they may also be exactly what we need today."

https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2020/ ... tial-arts/
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby edededed on Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:35 am

The part with a HK person sending her kids to taekwondo was sad. Mass-produced Japanese-Korean martial art with fake history and global organization is better than traditional Chinese folk martial art?
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby GrahamB on Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:42 pm

Can’t deny a TJD black belt is an internationally recognised qualification you could put on a cv.
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby edededed on Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:38 am

It is a bit ironic that despite the attempt to support diversity, etc. more these days (at least superficially), certificates/qualifications inherently go against diversity.

CMA has always been about diversity and uniqueness; in this kind of world, if mass-produced TKD is what everyone wants, then there is no hope for CMA!
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby Trick on Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:21 am

as i understand, one factor that martial art interested kids here in china are put in TKD schools rather than a CMA school is that the parents do not have to follow the otherwise rule of conduct of occationally giving gifts to and/or asking the teacher out for dinners
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby MaartenSFS on Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:28 pm

The reason that TKD is popular in China is because the rigid structure teaches discipline (and how to fold their own clothes), lets the parents relax for an hour or two and is an Olympic sport. Also, it's not Chinese. And it's safe...
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby johnwang on Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:09 pm

I strongly dislike the CMA training order with solo form first and application later.

Since the virus, I start to teach CMA Miao Diao. I start to teach partner drills first. later on, when students link partner drills into sequence, they will get the solo form.

But most CMA teachers just jump into solo form without going through the partner drills first. IMO, this kind of teaching is totally in the wrong order. No wonder CMA teachers have created a lot of CMA dancers who can only do solo form and have no idea about application.

If we can all start from partner drills first (as shown in this clip), CMA will not have bad reputation as we have today.

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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby edededed on Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:48 pm

Maybe the order came from the religious origins of CMA - e.g. Buddhism (Shaolin), Daoism (Wudang), etc. Not only would monks, etc. be unwilling to teach violence, but they also would have used the exercises for other reasons.

I think your order of partner first makes sense, and plus, they will not have to ask you about the applications later!
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby johnwang on Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:56 pm

edededed wrote:be unwilling to teach violence, but they also would have used the exercises for other reasons.

- Not willing to teach the application.
- Over emphasize health, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...

are the major issues for CMA.
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby robert on Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:12 pm

johnwang wrote:Since the virus, I start to teach CMA Miao Diao. I start to teach partner drills first. later on, when students link partner drills into sequence, they will get the solo form.

Some in-laws demonstrated a Miao Dao stationary overhead cut for me they learned in Taiwan. It looked like a good way to learn how to use the back bow. I've seen cuts off to the side that would be good to train the waist as an axis. That could be a simple way to teach the basic body mechanics.
Last edited by robert on Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:48 pm

One of the best ways to train the fists is by training the sabre.
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:49 pm

johnwang wrote:
edededed wrote:be unwilling to teach violence, but they also would have used the exercises for other reasons.

- Not willing to teach the application.
- Over emphasize health, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...

are the major issues for CMA.

I think that a bigger problem is face...
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Re: Hope for traditional martial arts

Postby johnwang on Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:56 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:I think that a bigger problem is face...

What do you mean "face"?

In the following clips, the upward block is the 1st move of the 1st long fist form that I (also all students from the Chinese Central Goushu Institute in Nanking 1928) have learned.

When I learned the solo form first, I learned it as an upward block. Later on when I learned application, we changed it into side way block.

This is the problem to learn form first and application later. If a form was created incorrectly, even the best MA teacher would have problem to explain the correct application to his students.

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