salcanzonieri wrote:Nice, but you are really changing the subject. I know that Zen Buddhism has roots in Taoism.
That's fine for meditation and mindfulness and enlightment.
BIG SO WHAT
I am stating the the actual movements found posture by posture in TJQ. are all found within Shaolin Qigong and Routines.
That's my point. A point that can be proven not only by me, who practiced both Shaolin and TJQ since the early 1980s, but also many other researchers in China and outside of China.
It is a very important fact that each and every posture, and strings of postural movements can be found.
TJQ is pieced together, it's a patchwork of all different Shaolin material, which was always internal.
The whole internal vs external thing was all a hoax and always was.
The only external martial arts is modern day Competition Wusu, and now we can add MMA to that, perhaps.
Regardless, none of that is important. What is important, very important, is that every single piece of TJQ can be pointed out in the different related Shaolin Qigongs and routines that are part of the Ming dynasty era Shaolin Hong Quan systm (which consisted of Chan Yuan Gong, Louhan 13 Postures Gong, Lao Xiao Da Hong Quan, Rou Quan, Jingang Quan, Tai Zhu Chang Quan, Ape Monkey Quan, Xiao Pao Chui, etc.,)
So don't ignore this statement, which is a fact, and change the subject into blah blah blah.
Furthermore, I don't think that Pao Quan from Chen Wang Ting's time survived. The current Chen Pau Quan sets contains 2 vaguely general movements from Shaolin Xiao Pao Quan, which are also found anyway in all the other Shaolin forms I just mentioned. Right now no one knows where the movements in Chen Pao Quan originated from.
But that is changing the subject as well.
But it still seem a no “big so what” but rather a big issuefor you, that there should not be traced to any Taoism;Taoist theories to Taijiquan?
Yes of course postures of boxing might have been though up within the walls of Shaolin, but without any religious significance to them....Who thought up the forms, the monks, visitors with Taoist or Confusian background, or battle tired soldiers seeking temporarily sanctuary in the temple, or perhaps a mix of them...
To the very same shell of a form then different intents can be poured in to giving it different performance characteristics whether it was intents of spiritual, religious or strictly martial, or perhaps a mix of them...
Me too, with a little twisting and turning ‘I can show you’ how the Kanku-dai Kata of Karate very likely is the same form as the os the those of the Chen village, not name wise but posture wise.....is that very very important? maybe....but however an interesting reserch hobby to play around with.