Wuji by Laozi

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Wuji by Laozi

Postby Yeung on Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:46 am

Know whiteness, Maintain blackness, and be a model for all under heaven. By being a model for all under heaven, Eternal integrity will not err. If eternal integrity does not err, You will return to infinity. (28, tr. Mair 1990:93) https://terebess.hu/english/tao/mair.html#Kap28

Mair’s translation is from the excavated Mawangdui Daodejing Text A predated the commonly circulated texts.

Wuji means infinity and this contradicted the concept of Wuji give birth to Taiji, since Taiji give birth to Yin Yang, 4 elements, 8 signs, 16, 32, 64, ….. Wuji (infinity), as according to Yijing.
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Re: Wuji by Laozi

Postby Bao on Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:13 am

In the Daodejing of Laozi, there is no wuji. Wuji is non-differential which is the state before Taiji, this theory and concept was created approx 1500 years later as an interpretation of Yijing. In the Daodejing, there is wu - non-being and you - being. Here being is created from non-being through the De, the creative force that is the active expresion of the Dao. Thus wu and wuji cannot be compared. Its not the same meaning but the same character used in another way.
Last edited by Bao on Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wuji by Laozi

Postby Yeung on Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:07 am

《出土文獻 - Excavated texts》
《馬王堆 - Mawangdui》
《老子甲 - Laozi A》
《老子甲道經》
28 Jump to dictionaryShow parallel passages 老子甲道... :
知其雄,守其雌,為天下溪。為天下溪,恆德不雞。恆德不雞,復歸嬰兒。知其白,守其辱,為天下浴。為天下浴,恆德乃□德乃□□□□□。知其,守其黑,為天下式。為天下式,恆德不貣。德不貣,復歸於無極。楃散□□□□人用則為官長。夫大制無割。
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Re: Wuji by Laozi

Postby Yeung on Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:09 am

You mean they twisted the meaning of Wuji, 1500 years later?
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Re: Wuji by Laozi

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:24 am

Yeung wrote:You mean they twisted the meaning of Wuji, 1500 years later?


The common understanding of wuji today comes from the Yijing and Song dynasty people as Zhou Dunyi and Chu Xi. Laozi's Wu is something else. You mix it all up in the OP, it's not the same.
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Re: Wuji by Laozi

Postby ghostface on Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:40 am

"Meaning of the Daodejing" by Ren Farong, a Taoist who was at a time the chairman of the Chinese Taoist Association, is an interesting read about the topic, in the introduction he uses Wuji and Taiji diagrams and their concepts to explain the main ideas found in the text: http://www.fang.ece.ufl.edu/daobook.pdf
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Re: Wuji by Laozi

Postby Yeung on Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:10 am

Bao wrote:
Yeung wrote:You mean they twisted the meaning of Wuji, 1500 years later?


The common understanding of wuji today comes from the Yijing and Song dynasty people as Zhou Dunyi and Chu Xi. Laozi's Wu is something else. You mix it all up in the OP, it's not the same.


Where in Yijing can your find Wuji?

Zhou Dunyi failed to differentiate between Wuji and Taiji, and he was not a Taoist.
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Re: Wuji by Laozi

Postby Bao on Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:51 pm

Yeung wrote:
Bao wrote:
Yeung wrote:You mean they twisted the meaning of Wuji, 1500 years later?


The common understanding of wuji today comes from the Yijing and Song dynasty people as Zhou Dunyi and Chu Xi. Laozi's Wu is something else. You mix it all up in the OP, it's not the same.


Where in Yijing can your find Wuji?

Zhou Dunyi failed to differentiate between Wuji and Taiji, and he was not a Taoist.


Wuji is Zhou Dunyi’s term, it’s his interpretation of the Yijing. No he was not a Daoist, he interpreted Daoist thought and concepts in a Confucian way. And here’s the rub. You wrote “Wuji means infinity and this contradicted the concept of Wuji give birth to Taiji, since Taiji give birth to Yin Yang, 4 elements, 8 signs, 16, 32, 64, ….. Wuji (infinity), as according to Yijing.” This has very little to do with Laozi. And yet you named the thread “Wuji by Laozi”. I have no idea what you wanted to say in the OP. I ask because I enjoy discussing these things.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
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Re: Wuji by Laozi

Postby Yeung on Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:54 am

Zhou Dunyi (1017-1073) did not have access to the excavated version of Laozi's Daodejing (Mawangdui Text A and Text B, 200 BC). Dao is there before any form of created things according to Laozi. The term Wuji means "without limit" or infinite in any ancient text. There is no contradiction, he was wrong that is all.
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