Article about abandoning fajin?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby johnwang on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:03 pm

If you just train this Fajin drill, how long do you think that you can develop your Fajin?

- 1 month?
- 3 months?
- 6 months?

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I'm still allergic to "push".
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Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:07 pm

This one drill will only help develop 开劲, or outwards power, perhaps some 横劲, horizontal power. I think that this drill works better as a fighting technique than as a drill for developing Fajin.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby johnwang on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:15 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:This one drill will only help develop 开劲, or outwards power, perhaps some 横劲, horizontal power. I think that this drill works better as a fighting technique than as a drill for developing Fajin.

This is why more than 1 Fajin drill will be needed. Each Fajin drill can only develop 1 special Jin.

IMO, all those Fajin drills are CMA treasure.

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Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:36 pm

I agree. :)
This drill is more similar to how I train it. I train several movements for each Jin.
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Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby Trick on Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:16 pm

Climb-up wrote:
Trick wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:It's always interesting to see non tai chi people talk about advanced stages of tai chi
The best tai chi practitioner and fighter I have known did no special exercises to cultivate fa Jing but could manifest it when needed in any circumstances
Most of what people show as fa Jing is just karate style Kime

I will be brave to boast that during my karate heydays my Kime expression looked more awesom than the two Fajin clips posted in the thread..... 8-)


I’m not experienced enough in IMA to feel comfortable making a comparison, but I’ve been watching videos of old-school Okinawan karate masters and, more than once, have been :o !!!
Definitely doesn’t look like what I was doing when took karate as a kid.

I was a “shotokanist”....Shotokan can be described as “Japanesed” Karate, slightly different from its Okinawan origin
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Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby Trick on Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:34 am

MaartenSFS wrote:I'm not talking about a normal push, but a penetrating wave that can crumple someone on the ground or send them hurtling backwards. Not with little effort, but with my whole body in focus. Whether or not I have an object in my hand is irrelevant (though a weapon only makes it worse for the receiver).

Uprooting/send’em flying sound as “lower level” stuff, not as some higher result of Fajin.
The little I experienced by both receiving and delivering it’s an vibrating energy that penetrate deep inside the receiver without him being pushed back.
For this there’s no need for an whole body launching toward the target like an battering ram.
I discovered this vibrating energy back when I was into karate, but it wasn’t shown/demonstrated on me until years later by an Chen Taiji teacher in Beijing. This knowledge to the point it can be demonstrated is quite rare I too would think, so far It only been demonstrated to/on me by that teacher in Beijing, perhaps other teachers been holding it back(wich is understandable, since it seem as quite dangerous to play around with)
It’s said the late karate master(Shotokan) Hirokazu Kanazawa had the skill, it was nothing he taught, it was an skill that just came naturally to him, he even didn’t know he had it until an Chinese martial artist pointed out how his striking looked as if it had that vibrating force........I “rediscovered” in my (Yang) Taiji practice that very same Fajn feeling I had discovered n my previous karate practice , However now it came from doing “slow and soft hand waving in the air”
Last edited by Trick on Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby Trick on Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:54 am

johnwang wrote:If you just train this Fajin drill, how long do you think that you can develop your Fajin?

- 1 month?
- 3 months?
- 6 months?

Image

Actually that’s an good exercise for that purpose, it’s same as an basic exercise I’ve learned from Wuxing Tongbeiquan However it’s developing skill on a narrow forward path one have to add other exercises for energy xpression towar other directions. Taijiquan exercise is special since it work in omnipresence
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Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby Trick on Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:13 am

MaartenSFS wrote:That's what impresses you? That takes less than a half year of training...

Of course if one is talented one get things rather quick. On the other hand it could be the result of all the different previous MA training one have done which by trial and errors later made it easy to get it clear when then the last teacher demonstrated/explained/taught it ?
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Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby MaartenSFS on Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:56 am

Trick wrote:
MaartenSFS wrote:That's what impresses you? That takes less than a half year of training...

Of course if one is talented one get things rather quick. On the other hand it could be the result of all the different previous MA training one have done which by trial and errors later made it easy to get it clear when then the last teacher demonstrated/explained/taught it ?

My point is that this is only a step towards learning practical Fajin, but not the highest level. At this stage it's more of a parlour trick.

The wave that is created penetrates into the body. When the wavelength is small it crumples them. When it is large it sends them flying. They are both part of the same thing.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Article about abandoning fajin?

Postby dspyrido on Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:01 pm

johnwang wrote:If you just train this Fajin drill, how long do you think that you can develop your Fajin?

- 1 month?
- 3 months?
- 6 months?



Until it can be done 1000+ times with power and intensity in a single training day. Then you'll have fajin.

In doing this the discipline of mind over body would have been learnt. Adding another move and repeating it is not as hard as learning the discipline of doing in the first place.

Adding a kicking move for example would not require every single muscle fibre to be conditoned because the 1st practise provided a foundation.
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