No more martial arts “masters” in China

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby Tom on Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:59 am

Needless to say, this is just my opinion. Please feel free to disregard it. ;D
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby MaartenSFS on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:28 pm

What Xu Xiaodong did is pick on some charlatans that any real martial artist would laugh at and make new generations of young Chinese loathe their own culture so that the few actual masters left have no one to pass on the knowledge and it is lost forever.

If he had gone around and challenged anyone and everyone and made an attempt to seek out people with skill and weeded out the fakes he would have done a great service, but instead he has driven the final nail into the coffin...
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby Trick on Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:04 am

here in my neighborhood is an TKD club. on the big sign just outside it says "chinese - tae kwon do"........ howvere when one think about it, TKD originally was basically Japanese Shotokan Karate, which is an "modern" form of Okinawan Shorin(shaolin)-ryu, derived from okinawan shuri-te and tomari-te, which in turn was heavily if not compleatly influenced by Chinese martial arts........the Kickboxing of Xu might have made the same journey, Xu migh actually be an practitioner of chinese gongfu... 8-)
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby .Q. on Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:22 pm

MaartenSFS wrote:What Xu Xiaodong did is pick on some charlatans that any real martial artist would laugh at and make new generations of young Chinese loathe their own culture so that the few actual masters left have no one to pass on the knowledge and it is lost forever.

If he had gone around and challenged anyone and everyone and made an attempt to seek out people with skill and weeded out the fakes he would have done a great service, but instead he has driven the final nail into the coffin...

His point was to expose fake charlatans, not traditional martial art. He openly praised shuaijiao practitioners. He has done a great service even though I don't like the guy as a person.
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby Bhassler on Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:11 pm

He didn't pick on anyone. He was challenged and accepted. It was no big deal, until other people made it one. I don't see any of the people who are talking shit about Xu actually doing any fighting themselves, so there's that...
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby GrahamB on Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:12 am

On the surface this looks like change in a positive direction, however I'd put money on it not being, considering who it's coming from.

This looks more like Plausible deniability. Face saving. "He was never a master anyway". That kind of thing.

Once more they're not addressing the real problem, just trying to brush it under the carpet.

Apparently they did this last year too.
Last edited by GrahamB on Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby Trick on Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:42 am

Bhassler wrote:He didn't pick on anyone. He was challenged and accepted. It was no big deal, until other people made it one. I don't see any of the people who are talking shit about Xu actually doing any fighting themselves, so there's that...

I didn’t know about this Xu before his “Taiji master” fight began to float around the tubes. Was he challenged by that Taiji master ? By whom and why was the videos openly published ? Who had gathered o many spectators to view the challenge for what purpose ? Was it clearly explained by Xu the Taiji master he fought was a fake taijimaster......?........Yes, about me you are right I’m no fighter, however I can anyway adress my doubts about Xu’s noble Intensions
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby Bhassler on Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:27 am

Let's not get too caught up in the "noble intentions" thing. My sense of it is that Xu's just a coarse, tough dude who likes punching people in the face for fun. He was just doing what he does and some dumbass fraud got a big head and wandered into someone else's territory, and things went sideways for all involved from there.

Byron Jacobs has touched on it several times in his podcasts, but this one is probably the most detailed and explicit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEkyXowI5_A

For the broader social context that creates all this nonsense, I thought this one was pretty interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vbu-fhLNk8

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I don't normally like to agree with you, but yes, 100%.
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby vadaga on Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:08 am

Fair enough, someone needs to get rid of the martial arts LARPing. As noted by Graham, I hope it doesnt lead to some sort of government-sponsored Wulin Dahui masters.
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby Henry on Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:52 am

mao's great leap forward and cultural revolution killed off alot of Chinese martial arts and denigrated some amazing practitioners of Chinese martial arts.
if anyone is to blame for the sad state of china's martial arts culture it is the CCP and the weak wushu they promoted.

some of the masters in Malaysia came back to teach "real skills" such as chee kim tong, (wuzu quan) because the art's real skills had been all but lost.
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby yeniseri on Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:47 pm

THe social milieu "rice bowl" mentality is that only the ones designated as lineage holders are the true masters but this is false.
I have met many teachers who are as skilled but they keep quiet, observe the ricebowl system but still show ther merit of their art. I have met students of teacehrs who were not even heard of but are able to hold their nead up high and prosper. p.s. Over the years, I have met stuydents of Wang Langting and Li Ruidong (their students) and I was impressed by their knowledge.

One of my last teachers taught a sequence from Li Ruidong's system but never mentioned the connection or from whom he had learnt the form as he rarely talked about his teachers!. ABout 15 years later, I happen to see the form being played and was shocked because that information of that system of just do as I do and ask no questions.
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby nicklinjm on Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:00 pm

@Yeniseri - were the Li Ruidong people you met connected to the Zhang Wansheng / Zhang Shaotang group who seem to be mostly responsible for spreading Li (Ruidong) taiji in Hebei these days?
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby yeniseri on Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:59 pm

nicklinjm wrote:@Yeniseri - were the Li Ruidong people you met connected to the Zhang Wansheng / Zhang Shaotang group who seem to be mostly responsible for spreading Li (Ruidong) taiji in Hebei these days?

I don't know! When I learned the form (which I found out later to be one from Li Ruidong) my teacher never mentioned a 'lineage' and he never talked about who the teacher was! There was never an explanation.
Based on my previous experience, I thought the form was part of Beijing wushutaijiquan (48shi taijiquan, 66shitaijiquan) based on the external 'synthetic' handform (closed palm movements) with mixed postural shapes.
Here is a sample:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzseqFxhdjc
Last edited by yeniseri on Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:14 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby nicklinjm on Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:52 pm

Hmmm - did you learn this in Beijing / from a Beijing teacher? If so it's probably from the Gao Ruizhou branch of Li style - he taught a lot of students in Beijing.
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Re: No more martial arts “masters” in China

Postby yeniseri on Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:39 pm

nicklinjm wrote:Hmmm - did you learn this in Beijing / from a Beijing teacher? If so it's probably from the Gao Ruizhou branch of Li style - he taught a lot of students in Beijing.


I learrned it in Chicago, IL
My teacher is an acupuncturist by profession and he taught numerous styles of qigong and taijiquan. He is a somewhat known teacher and wrote a few textbooks on TCM (acupuncture and herbal medicine) used in schools in EU and USA.
I believe that he went to school in Jilin back in the 1950s but went to Beijing at some later period before he came to USA. His father was a TCM physician in Cuba!

https://www.amazon.com/Acupuncture-TCM- ... 1928537022
Last edited by yeniseri on Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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